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Old 07-23-2010, 11:56 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,376,981 times
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One of the main reasons UR is so appealing, is the unity and bonding with other like minded believers, in UR.

I noticed that when I was led to this doctrine, I had messages, and friendships, that I otherwise would NOT have had. How do I know this? Because the Ur people that are new haven't bothered.

It is like going to a party, and you have a bunch of people all huddled together chitchatting. Then when you show up, and you disagree with their points, then the crown slowly leaves to form again somewhere else.

If a person is NOT absolutely comfortable in their personal relationship with God and His Son, and need others to cling onto, to help back them up? Then it is not much of a relationship, IMO.

Also, I have noticed the coldness from the ET camp. They are so doctrinally engrained in their beliefs, that they also refuse to associate with others who do not hold to their particular doctrines. Almost to a hate standpoint. Hense the division. A DEEP division. It may not be this way, but it sure looks as though this is the case.

I personally feel a closeness with ALL those seeking Him. Yes, they may be on different paths, at this moment, but they have turned towards Him. They have heeded the tap on the shoulder, and the calling that says, I AM.

But, I notice when the UR crown shows up, they show up in packs. There isn't much of a one on one discussion, or even sticking to the topics or definitions. It goes into a battle of doctrines, almost immediately followed by an endless barrade of links to other men's webites. Thankfully it has slowed a bit. The Word is good enough. If a link is needed to help, then fine. But more than one and it looks to be nothing but a puppy nipping at the heels of another.

Read them. Listen to what they say. It is a communal cultlike trait found in almost every religion, and is not supposed to be Christian, because as lights of the world, we are to relfect that light, even to those who would despise us. Go unto ALL the world and preach the gospel.

For you UR people, you say it is all about love. But always the love is not expressed in your posts. It becomes bitter and antagonistic towards the ET crowd, like there is bone to pick with them for causing some of you to believe such a doctrine for those many years you did.

Let it go. Let Jesus in. Let Him finish the work set forth in you. This goes for ALL of us, including me.

Defend the faith. Not each other. If they are worth their salt, they can defend themselves, though Christ. If not, then I would question why they believe the way they do. A good post deserves mention. But is every post, a great post?


Sorry, if I offended any. It is just my personal perception. It is not a reflection to anyone personally, as I love each of you and enjoy our conversations. It builds me up. It tears me down. It is, part of the work Christ is doing in my life, which is why I even consider coming here.

Thank you,

Tony
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:41 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,689,446 times
Reputation: 639
You do not offend me but that certainly is not my perspective.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
One of the main reasons UR is so appealing, is the unity and bonding with other like minded believers, in UR.
I left an in person bonding in the church I was in at the time to an emotional vacancy because the only people I know that believe the same as I do are on the internet. So quite the opposite is something I had to consider.



Quote:
I noticed that when I was led to this doctrine, I had messages, and friendships, that I otherwise would NOT have had. How do I know this? Because the Ur people that are new haven't bothered.
Even before I came to believe what I do now and left the organized church system, I found it quite diaheartening that when I would leave a church and go to the next no one from the previous church would maintain a friendship with me. This is mostly due to the conflct within the organized church system.

So, when I chose to leave the church system entirely, I knew that no one from the church I was in would maintain a real and long lasting friendship with me and I was correct. So I actually left the church system on a faith that what I believed was worth giving all that up for.

Quote:

If a person is NOT absolutely comfortable in their personal relationship with God and His Son, and need others to cling onto, to help back them up? Then it is not much of a relationship, IMO.
True, and I do not rely on people and my emotions in that regaurd.

Quote:

For you UR people, you say it is all about love. But always the love is not expressed in your posts.

YES, it is all about GODS LOVE. What I do NOT do is claim I ever express Gods love perfectly or totally. This does not prevent me from seeking it and wanting it and hoping all are saved by it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:01 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,458,717 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post

If a person is NOT absolutely comfortable in their personal relationship with God and His Son, and need others to cling onto, to help back them up? Then it is not much of a relationship, IMO.

For what it's worth, June read the above and thought about what she had at one time read in Acts. It would seem to June that people need others, and that there are ocassions when one is NOT "absolutely comfortable" with their relationship with God. So despite her being a nonbeliever, it would make sense to June to think "thank God there are buildings and congregations" for those who would wish to not only worship collectively, but to seek out necessary support, when needed. June would actually be pretty surprised if she heard that no one on this forum (or in real life) had never felt the least bit compelled to seek out fellow believers when need be. --In the best interests of re-vitalizing/re-establishing their relationship with God...


Take gentle care.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:16 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,723,456 times
Reputation: 263
I agree totally with Phazelwood and June. I was taught all my life that prayer, reading the bible, and Christian fellowship were the three most important things in the process of spiritual growth. Like Phazelwood, I don't have many friends or family members that believe like I do, so it can be quite lonely, so Tony, I don't know why you think that about UR believers.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,933 posts, read 8,510,601 times
Reputation: 11636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post




Even before I came to believe what I do now and left the organized church system, I found it quite diaheartening that when I would leave a church and go to the next no one from the previous church would maintain a friendship with me. This is mostly due to the conflct within the organized church system.

So, when I chose to leave the church system entirely, I knew that no one from the church I was in would maintain a real and long lasting friendship with me and I was correct. So I actually left the church system on a faith that what I believed was worth giving all that up for.





That's too bad. I have lifelong friends form several churches that I left. But maybe it is different in my part of the country.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:36 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,689,446 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
That's too bad. I have lifelong friends form several churches that I left. But maybe it is different in my part of the country.
It is different for different people, I know people in my area that do not have the same experiences as I have.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:28 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,413,377 times
Reputation: 682
Hi Hotin,

I'm not sure if you are on target with your OP. Humans crave fellowship. The bible even instructs us to fellowship with each other.

Like other UR believers have said, I know exactly ZERO people who believe in UR in my "real" life. I treasure the few online relationships I have here with like minded believers. And city-data is a shining light of free speech where one can debate and discuss the matter (hopefully in a friendly and loving manner). Most other boards have banned UR discussion, or are totally pro-UR (ie. tentmaker or bible-truths). City data is unique in that believers from both points of view can come together and present the information - iron sharpening iron.

It is tough when you are trying to explain your point of view, and then instead of someone asking you a question about it, you are simply accused of being a liar or deceiver or worse. It would be nice if we all could keep these discussions to a certain scholarly level, but these are emotional topics, with much personal self-interest - it is inevitable fights will break out.

Its not just UR vs ET either. Go to any message board, and there will be people fighting back and forth about their favorite topics. Calvinism vs Arminianism is a big one on some boards. OSAS vs NOSAS. ET vs Annihilation. etc.

Back to UR and the scriptures: yes it is all about love. God's love for all will achieve what God wants. Does that mean we are perfect? No. I fail more than I'd like to in this respect, especially on a message board it is easy for things to get out of hand when they were not intended to. But in my everyday life I try to show love more than ever now. Where I am from, almost no one wants to talk on matters of religion, Jesus, salvation, etc - its just never spoken of. Its tough when you have all this information on the inside you want to share and no one cares. I used to always wonder in the back of my mind if a person was destined for ET or not. Now I don't worry about it and I am free to show love as best I can. Am I perfect? No. But God is working in me.

Peace out...
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 4,001,926 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
One of the main reasons UR is so appealing, is the unity and bonding with other like minded believers, in UR.


That can be said of all Christians and even people who think alike.

Unfortunately, I donít think like many of my brothers and sister who believe in UR.

We all agree on the final outcome, but the way God is going to have this outcome come about is different.

I have had more disagreements with my UR brethren than I have with my ET or annihilation brethren. And through these disagreements, I have lost many who were once my friends. Comes with the territory Iím afraid.


Quote:
If a person is NOT absolutely comfortable in their personal relationship with God and His Son, and need others to cling onto, to help back them up? Then it is not much of a relationship, IMO.


I donít or ever did have others to back me up, for the first 24 years I believed in the restitution of all things I walked this path alone (I am not complaining, just stating a fact) it was not until 2000 when I got hooked up to the net that I finally found others that believed in UR.

Now this was a blessing to me as walking alone is hard to do, everyone needs someone to help hold up their hands (as Joshua did for Moses) once in awhile.

But this holding up the others hands only lasts for a while.

When God sets a new understanding before you and you follow it, those same people who once held up your hands (supported you) separate from you and you are left alone again.

So itís not that UR is appealing because of unity, it is because people like to be around those who believe like they do. When differences occur, it separates us one from another for a time but we will all come to know the truth in due course.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:49 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 458,427 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
One of the main reasons UR is so appealing, is the unity and bonding with other like minded believers, in UR.

I noticed that when I was led to this doctrine, I had messages, and friendships, that I otherwise would NOT have had. How do I know this? Because the Ur people that are new haven't bothered.

It is like going to a party, and you have a bunch of people all huddled together chitchatting. Then when you show up, and you disagree with their points, then the crown slowly leaves to form again somewhere else.

If a person is NOT absolutely comfortable in their personal relationship with God and His Son, and need others to cling onto, to help back them up? Then it is not much of a relationship, IMO.

Also, I have noticed the coldness from the ET camp. They are so doctrinally engrained in their beliefs, that they also refuse to associate with others who do not hold to their particular doctrines. Almost to a hate standpoint. Hense the division. A DEEP division. It may not be this way, but it sure looks as though this is the case.

I personally feel a closeness with ALL those seeking Him. Yes, they may be on different paths, at this moment, but they have turned towards Him. They have heeded the tap on the shoulder, and the calling that says, I AM.

But, I notice when the UR crown shows up, they show up in packs. There isn't much of a one on one discussion, or even sticking to the topics or definitions. It goes into a battle of doctrines, almost immediately followed by an endless barrade of links to other men's webites. Thankfully it has slowed a bit. The Word is good enough. If a link is needed to help, then fine. But more than one and it looks to be nothing but a puppy nipping at the heels of another.

Read them. Listen to what they say. It is a communal cultlike trait found in almost every religion, and is not supposed to be Christian, because as lights of the world, we are to relfect that light, even to those who would despise us. Go unto ALL the world and preach the gospel.

For you UR people, you say it is all about love. But always the love is not expressed in your posts. It becomes bitter and antagonistic towards the ET crowd, like there is bone to pick with them for causing some of you to believe such a doctrine for those many years you did.

Let it go. Let Jesus in. Let Him finish the work set forth in you. This goes for ALL of us, including me.

Defend the faith. Not each other. If they are worth their salt, they can defend themselves, though Christ. If not, then I would question why they believe the way they do. A good post deserves mention. But is every post, a great post?


Sorry, if I offended any. It is just my personal perception. It is not a reflection to anyone personally, as I love each of you and enjoy our conversations. It builds me up. It tears me down. It is, part of the work Christ is doing in my life, which is why I even consider coming here.

Thank you,

Tony
Hi Tony - thanks for the post - in a way what you are saying reflects my journey (builds me up, tears me down then builds me up again ) -- I do enjoy this forum but I absolutely do not enjoy the animosity that shows up from both the UR's to the ET's and the ET's to the UR's and the annihilationist's who are against the UR's - I like the different views being discussed, a lot I read but do not comment on -
We are witnessing human bahaviour in varying degrees from all on this forum - I remember a time when it was not the UR/ET it was preterist/futurist and animosity was apparent there as well and it can come out in people who hold to the sabbath against those who do not.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:52 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,413,377 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post

That can be said of all Christians and even people who think alike.

Unfortunately, I donít think like many of my brothers and sister who believe in UR.

We all agree on the final outcome, but the way God is going to have this outcome come about is different.

I have had more disagreements with my UR brethren than I have with my ET or annihilation brethren. And through these disagreements, I have lost many who were once my friends. Comes with the territory Iím afraid.




I donít or ever did have others to back me up, for the first 24 years I believed in the restitution of all things I walked this path alone (I am not complaining, just stating a fact) it was not until 2000 when I got hooked up to the net that I finally found others that believed in UR.

Now this was a blessing to me as walking alone is hard to do, everyone needs someone to help hold up their hands (as Joshua did for Moses) once in awhile.

But this holding up the others hands only lasts for a while.

When God sets a new understanding before you and you follow it, those same people who once held up your hands (supported you) separate from you and you are left alone again.

So itís not that UR is appealing because of unity, it is because people like to be around those who believe like they do. When differences occur, it separates us one from another for a time but we will all come to know the truth in due course.
Good post pneuma. I didn't realize you had believed in UR for so long.

I know we have had our disagreements, but I hope you can count me as a friend. One thing is for sure - for all the pointless debates we have now, one day we will know the truth. And I believe it will be good for all.
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