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Then why does is the word aionios translated as "since the world began" in Rom 16:25, 2Ti 1:9, and Tts 1:2?
And why is the word Chronos not translated at all in those verses? Chronos means time, and the phrase "aionios Chronos" means "the times of the ages". It wouldnt make since to says "since forever" or "since eternity" or since everlasting" ...
Tossing it back at you, one could ask why is God eternal when the same word is used?
Perhaps there is more to translation than picking one of the five possible meaning of a particular word that fits one's theology.
Greater minds than myself do the work of Bible translation.
It seems to me there needs to be some consistancy in the theology of UR-.
It must get confusing at times.
Well, there we have another issue that we can have some common ground upon.
So, would this confusion be in comparison to the confusion in Christianity on what it takes to actually be saved?
Now I know you will have your answer, however I have read many threads from posters that would disagree with you and have their own set of criteria and how do I determine if they are right or you are right.
I go to churches and one church makes it real simple, yet another church has determined that you must speak in tongues, but when someone does speak in tongues then they say it was not genuine so back to the drawing board there. Yet another church makes the statement that many pew sitters are not saved because they do not do enough in the church and the fact that they are in the church expressing a belief in Jesus Christ really doesn't mean anything.
I mean, YES, lets talk about consistancy and who's point of view carries a much greater RESPONSIBILITY to be consistant.
When you assert that a life of choices be made that could determine someone being damned for all eternity your argument is with the wrong crowd here brother.
I don't use the KJV due to it's archaic language. However, I notice that 90% of the cites on this forum is KJV. Seems odd, but it does make it easier to come up with off beat theology as meanings of words have changed in the last 400years
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I see no agenda. Independent teams come up with the same concepts-over the last 1900 years. I think it verifies the correctness of the major translations.
It does bother me when people like the JWs rewrite the the Bible to *correct* certain *errors* which conflict with their doctrines. Example: The JWs have retranslated certain proof verses that demonstrate that Jesus is God the Son or that one goes to heaven or hell at the point of death.
Well, URs haven't written their own Bible. They are sitting in the pews every Sunday, most likely, holding the same Bibles that the "normal" guys hold.
Well, URs haven't written their own Bible. They are sitting in the pews every Sunday, most likely, holding the same Bibles that the "normal" guys hold.
Tossing it back you, one could ask why is God eternal when the same word is used?
Perhaps there is more to translation than picking one of the five possible meaning of a particular word that fits one's theology.
Greater minds than myself do the work of Bible translation.
Or perhaps the concept of eternity was never a Hebrew concept to begin with(hint, hint)? The Hebrew concept of time was circular, not linear. They believed time was repeating itself over and over again through progressive stages ... As a matter of fact the ancient Hebrew concept of time was that the past was in front of them and the future was behind them. But this concept of time is lost in the scriptures due to mistranslation and the interpolation of Hellenistic ideas and concepts. In the western mind God is eternal, meaning he was and is and will be ...
But the word aionios when applied to God does not denote his eternal being as we understand eternity in the west. When the word aionios is applied to God it means that he is the hidden or unseen God, the god of the ages. It describes his ineffability and his relationship to his creation. Of course this understanding escapes those ignorant of the ancient Hebrew concepts of God and time.
So what your saying is that eternal doesn't really mean forever and God will end at some point. Or is God eternal without end?
Or we really don't have eternal life, because it is only for the ages and could end. Or maybe the word realy does mean forever.
Or maybe "eternal" punishment doesn't mean forever. Or maybe it does? There must be a reason why aionios is translated forever or eternal. My understanding of God is that he is forever-eternal. Either the word means forever/eternal or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
It seems to me there needs to be some consistancy in the theology of UR-.
It must get confusing at times.
It is not confusing to us and we are NOT wanting it both ways. You misrepresent us when you say such things. This is how a mindset such yours will render these things when looking at the "English" word 'eternal'. I am not trying to be attacking here, for I used to be the same way. Here is what I understand on what the scriptures say on the questions you ask.
Will God end? You read it as "eternal God". I see it as "God of the age(s)" [We derive an 'eternal God' from God Himself, nobody has to tell us He is eternal]
Eternal Life? Your read 'eternal life'. I read 'age-abiding life', and this life will end. THEN we will be given Immortality. [age-abiding life is different than immortality]
Eternal Punishment? Same as 'eternal life', it will end. Read this verse and then read the supplied quote afterwards.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aionios).
Now see how Justinian phrases it....
[LEFT]
Quote:
It is conceded that the half-heathen emperor [Justinian] held to the idea of endless misery, for he proceeds not only to defend, but to define the doctrine he does not merely say, "We believe in aiwnion kolasin", for that was just what Origen himself taught. Nor does he say "the word aiwnioV has been misunderstood; it denotes endless duration", as he would have said, had there been such a disagreement. But, writing in Greek, with all the words of that abundant language from which to choose, he says: "The holy church of Christ teaches an endless aonian (ateleuthtoV aiwnioV) life to the righteous, and endless (ateleuthtoV) punishment to the wicked." If he supposed aiwnioV denoted endless duration, he would not have added the stronger word to it. The fact that he qualified it by ateleuthtoV, demonstrated that as late as the sixth century the former word did not signify endless duration.
The scripts were not written the way Justinian phrased it. Buy he adds a word to 'aionian' to DENOTE endlessness/eternity to the word. Aionios, by itself does not mean eternal in anyway. The closest word to eternal in the scriptures is "aidios" and is found only 2 times in scripture (Rom 1:20, Jud 1:6)
Then why does is the word aionios translated as "since the world began" in Rom 16:25, 2Ti 1:9, and Tts 1:2?
And why is the word Chronos not translated at all in those verses? Chronos means time, and the phrase "aionios Chronos" means "the times of the ages". It wouldnt make since to says "since forever" or "since eternity" or "since everlasting" ... It would be proper to have translated this phrase as, "since ancient/hidden times", because aionios was the Greek word used to translate the Hebrew word Owlam by the Greek speaking writers of the Septuagint. Owlam means literally beyond the horizon, or hidden, or beyond sight. Aionios carries the same meaning, that of a very long time beyond our ability to know, but not eternal.
Yes...and it is also used in such phrases as "long live the King". They are not saying he is eternal though. The kings rule was for his life. Don't remember where I read that but, will look it up.
You do realize that if we follow his logic we discover that maybe God isn't really eternal........
........eternal doesn't really mean forever.
Comforting thought. No?
Your not understanding the many posts that have addressed this. God is the only one who actually IS eternal.....we are not. We become immortal and as long as we are with God, under His wing and authority, then he gives us the gift of eternity.
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