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Old 07-24-2010, 03:56 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,449,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To the OP: If God did care . . . it would be that there NOT be a public day of prayer. Prayer is personal and private between each individual and God, period.
Seldom, errrrr..... lets make that almost never, do I agree with you, but on this one, you nailed it.

In life, business, I have found the believers that make a show of their beliefs, wear their religion on their sleeve, wear garish oversized crosses over business suits or dress, etc., are the worst of the lot, and usually should not be trusted any further than I could throw a school bus.

Religion, like your genitalia, don't pull it out in public, don't force it on anyone.

 
Old 07-24-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: New England
33,663 posts, read 21,984,284 times
Reputation: 2423
So then I would have the men everywhere pray, lifting to God holy hands which are unstained with anger or strife; 1 Timothy 2 : 8

I am not sure if this means personally in the secret place , or collectively , i would say either is good when it's by faith .

I do understand the outcry of the OP somewhat , though i certainly do not believe there is such thing as a christian nation.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,603,499 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
The will of your god only applies to you and the rest who choose to follow him.
God is God. As a nation, no one can impose a religion on others, but it does not change the fact that God is real, and His judgments are coming whethor the whole nation or the world likes it or not.

Quote:
BTW, being gay isn't a lifestyle any more than having blue eyes is. And yes, speaking against gays is indeed hate speech just as speaking against those of different skin color is.
That is the format that child molestors are now operating from. They cannot help the way they feel. This is who they are. If they teach children that their lifestyle is different, and they should not be prejudiced against them... because that can be a hate speech.

The rationality of homsexuality is being used by child molestors.

Yesh... I know. The "homosexuals" are mad at them for doing so, but it is appalling how the child molesters are getting as far as they have been. The point is this is about the misuse of liberty and twisting it to change the morality of this nation for the worse as evil men a seducuers shall wax worse and worse... and that is proof of it.

Ever noticed how fornicators are not tooting their horns for rights and the benefits of marriage? Self defeating, isn't it? To give up their sinful lifestyle is to get married. That is why people living together are not making a big deal about it.

Quote:
We have liberty and freedom in this nation because of laws based on secular ideals and principles, NOT your Bible or your god.
Your opinion. And again, I am referring to the liberty and freedom provided that otherwise would not be so in an athiest nation:

Quote:
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are NOT Christian values. They are not Biblical values, nor are they even your god's values.
Christianity teaches that believers are not to strive with man as it is on God to cause the increase, meaning we cannot convert anyone by our arguments: God is the One ministering. So in a nation where freedom to pursue or not pursue is the basis for christian liberty since no one can make a convert: it is Jesus Christ that makes a sinner a saint. Thus the forefathers leave freedom up to the citizens of this nation to pursue or not pursue their quest in relations to God on their own.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him, then that faith requires christian liberty and not a religious guantlet imposed by a nation.

Quote:
And it would be the same if it were a Christian "democracy".
No. It is not. There is no Christian Democracy nor a Christian Republic.

What country are you living in anyway? Have you been forced to believe in christianity? Let me answer for you. No.

If a person does not believe in Christ: he is at liberty to do so.

Islam does not give that same kind of liberty.

Quote:
In the eyes of who's god? My God says same sex marriages are fine. Other people's Gods say that marriage between a man and multiple wives is ok. But last time I checked, neither your god nor anyone else's calls the shots in this country. See: separation of church and state.
And who's God is it that says it is wrong to kill? If you want to take that tact, any man can make up their own god and their own set of rules, but society has to draw the line somewhere because there is that line of right and wrong.

Homsexuality is not convenient as it is a sexual relation that will not produce a child. It is unnatural and contrary to what and how we are. It goes against common sense period.

Your "god" would have the human race go into extinction and the creation of male and female a joke.

Quote:
Again, WHO'S God? Speak for your own deity. Your god doesn't dictate what marriage is.
And you as god can testify to that fact, right? Cause as sure as anything in the world, there is no religion of "god" endorsing same sex marriage so you are just making it up as you go along and God did not say that to you.

Seen the evidence of Sodom and Gomorrah? Actual sulfur balls pelted into rocks? The fact that the Dead Sea is called the Dead Sea should tell you something but if you do not care about Who God really is then no amount of archeological evidence of His intervention in history will deter you unless God peradventures opens your eyes to what the world is not proclaiming in the media.

Sodom & Gomorrah

The Scroll - Topical Viewer - Archaeology - Sodom & Gomorrah (http://www.abu.nb.ca/ecm/topics/arch5.htm - broken link)

This is your freedom to see what is at the link or not see it. I cannot force you to click on the links if you are not caring to know the truth.

Quote:
Non-sequitur strawman.
A deflection borne of having no answer.

Quote:
Says who?
The God that delivered the Israelites out of the land of Egypt.

Red Sea Crossing

Again, it is on you to seek or not to seek. If God is not ministering to you in drawing you unto the Son, I'm not going to bother to argue AND I trust Him to lead me away from such pointless arguments when it is obvious that posters are not seeking the truth.

Quote:
Giving citizens of a secular country the rights they deserve isn't rewriting your favorite fantasy novel one bit, as this nation's laws are neither governed or dictated by it.
Oh really? When they use the laws of the land to force churches to perform these same sex marriages, I see that as antagonistic and provocative, but yet we do not see any wars as of results, now do we?

Quote:
I hate to burst your bubble but atheists aren't the only ones who uphold and believe in the secular principles this nation was founded upon, nor are they the only ones who fight to defend the standards of legitimate science.
That bubble was not there to be bursted in the first place. That is no surprise to me.

Quote:
Most Christians do accept the facts of an ancient earth and evolution, BTW.
Error will run rampant in the latter days where only a few will find the faith so I am not surprised that many have turned from the truths in scriptures to fables by fallible men by their fallible devices in science so falsely called.

1 Timothy 6: 20O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 21Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

As it is, those of our forefathers that were christians, they understood the necessity for liberty in christianity not being represented by the government since no one can force christianity on the people, but yet they recognize the necessity for liberty and freedom for all to pursue or not pursue their own quests for the truth and to voice their beliefs by speech and be free to err if they choose a religion of the world.

One thing I believe, it is noted, is that the quotes about this nation not being founded on christian values means that because of the spirit of this nation is christian values, they had to clarify that it was not the government that was based on chrstian values to other nations of the world. If it wasn't in the spirit of christian values as these forefathers were free to voice their faith and belief in Jesus Christ in public office and even prayed in General assembly:

First Prayer In Congress

Then why the necessity to clarify that the government was not based on christian values? If freedom of religion.... why did USA did not have a necessity to stress that it was not an Islamic nation? Or of any other beliefs?

It is because the spirit of the nation was well known to the world was based on christian values as the forefathers voiced their faith in Jesus Christ publicly, and thus the need to clarify in a treaty that the government was not based on christian values to relay fears that they would fight for or defend it against other nations.

So it is evident that prohibitting a christian in saying any prayer publicly whethor in office or out of office is proof of the hypocrisey running amok in a nation that is forgetting God and the liberty given by our forefathers.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 05:14 PM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,924,125 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Is that you wanting this to be true or what? I can see the liberty provided by the spirit of the forefathers as christian: there is no liberty in atheism: proof? Look at Russia and China.
Russia and China are not examples of atheism. They are examples of extreme communism and socialism, neither of which is based on or inherently atheistic. The early Christians church was communist/socialist in structure.

And after all, Hitler and the Nazis were Christians.


Quote:
Hah! That is the whole basis for academic freedom in the field of science is to prove or disprove the hypothesis!
Yes, by using LEGITIMATE scientific methods and sound scientific arguments. I'm afraid ID/creationism does not meet that criteria.

Quote:
So you believe it is a right for athiests to impose their beliefs and views in the field of science!!!!!!
You are mistaken, as there are no "atheist beliefs" in science. Science only deals with facts and reality. Evolution is not atheism and most theists (including Christians) in the world accept evolution and all that it entails. Therefore your argument is moot.

Evolution was a hypothesis centuries ago. It is now a fact and a scientific theory - something which Intelligent Design is NOT can will never be.

Quote:
Hah! Again!! I can read those reports quite well, thank you. A conjecture is a conjecture.
You have read nothing, or if you did it was certainly far above your level of education and understanding of science.

Quote:
A speculation is not a fact. You do not build a hypothesis on top of another hypothesis and leave it at that as if you had just proven it when none of those hypothesis were proven!! Talk about spinning a fairy tale.
I'm afraid evolution is a proven fact, with more evidence in support of it than even gravity.

Quote:
Did you go to that site by the link provided?
Typical Christian revisionist claptrap..


Quote:
How about this? Science proved that the fetuses drawings are false: as in fake. Yet, it is still contained in the science books and still referred to by posters on the internet at other forums as being true.
The errors in some of Haeckel’s drawings were pointed out a century ago, not by Darwin’s creationist opponents, but by other legitimate scientists who were.….Haeckel’s critics.

Those drawings are no longer used in any textbooks. And the fact and scientific theory of evolution hardly hinges on whether those drawing are fake or not. What those drawings were meant to illustrate is still quite true and still quite clearly demonstrated using actual photographs of those same embryos - that all animals share a common evolutionary past.

Quote:
So pat yourself on the back for your flamboyancy and flippancy in defense of atheism as proof for why God is coming to judge the earth whethor the athiests believe in Him or not.
I have made no defense of atheism - especially considering that I am a Deist and believe in a rational GOD (like our Deist Founding Fathers did). Unlike the god of The Bible which is a hand-me-down tribal totem created by primitive desert nomads.

So sorry to dispel your little black and white world, but atheism is irrelevant to my having utterly destroyed your arguments.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 06:05 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,603,499 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Russia and China are not examples of atheism. They are examples of extreme communism and socialism, neither of which is based on or inherently atheistic.
Karl Marx was a christian turned athiest. I have a suspicion that the evolution theory is why.

Quote:
The early Christians church was communist/socialist in structure.
One can say that but that is speaking of a church: not a community. It is how one gives to the church and how the church is to give to poor members of the church in meeting immediate needs like food and clothing.

Quote:
And after all, Hitler and the Nazis were Christians.
Yes: although you cannot speak for all Nazis as being christians, but the evolution theory is once again responsible for the deceptions that has led wayward believers to Nazism.

Quote:
Yes, by using LEGITIMATE scientific methods and sound scientific arguments. I'm afraid ID/creationism does not meet that criteria.
Nope. They do not use it at all. Evolution theory is based on assumptions and spin control, hyping something to be true in the media but in actual wording, is not so.

Take for example the fossilized whale bones found on mountaintops.

Test your reading and analytical skill. This is a pro evolutionary article.

WHALE FOSSILS HIGH IN ANDES SHOW HOW MOUNTAINS ROSE FROM SEA - NYTimes.com

#1. Mountains rising from the sea is the reasons why fossilized whale bones are fond on those mountaintops and yet at the same time: we have fossilized animal bones on those same mountaintops. What is wrong with this picture?

#2. This Andes mountains is not the only range for mass burial grave yards of fossilized marine life and fossilized animal bones together when it can be found in Turkey, China, and North Africa.

So tell me: do not see evidence for the world wide flood?

Do you see unbias looking at the evidence when scientists are forced to wear evolutionary theory glasses in looking at everything?

Quote:
You are mistaken, as there are no "atheist beliefs" in science. Science only deals with facts and reality. Evolution is not atheism and most theists (including Christians) in the world accept evolution and all that it entails. Therefore your argument is moot.
Then my argument is not moot after all.

Quote:
Evolution was a hypothesis centuries ago. It is now a fact and a scientific theory - something which Intelligent Design is NOT can will never be.
That is just the general conclusion of all the hype you have been given in the media. Either you want the evolution theory to be true or you are just being complacent in allowing others to tell you what "the truth" is in science as christians are complacent in allowing others to tell them what the Bible says or mean.

Quote:
You have read nothing, or if you did it was certainly far above your level of education and understanding of science.
If you have read the article at that link and still do not see how I read it, then there is nothing more to say to you, now is there?

Anybody can read conjectures and assumptions and know what is a conjecture and an assumption.

Quote:
I'm afraid evolution is a proven fact, with more evidence in support of it than even gravity.
Hype.

Quote:
Typical Christian revisionist claptrap..
Hype against going over the hype you were given.

Quote:
The errors in some of Haeckel’s drawings were pointed out a century ago, not by Darwin’s creationist opponents, but by other legitimate scientists who were.….Haeckel’s critics.

Those drawings are no longer used in any textbooks. And the fact and scientific theory of evolution hardly hinges on whether those drawing are fake or not. What those drawings were meant to illustrate is still quite true and still quite clearly demonstrated using actual photographs of those same embryos - that all animals share a common evolutionary past.
The point of reference was to show the lack of discipline in science in the presenting of what they call facts. Already you are rationalizing it.

Just as the fact that you are purporting as no longer in textbooks is not true.

Evolution fraud in current biology textbooks

Quoted from the site below:

Quote:
Today – believe it or not – Haeckel’s drawings still appear in many high school and college textbooks. Among them are "Evolutionary Biology" by Douglas J. Futuyma (Third Edition, Sunderland, MA: Sinauer Associates, 1998), and also the bedrock text, "Molecular Biology of the Cell" (third edition), whose authors include biochemist Dr. Bruce Alberts, president of the National Academy of Sciences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
I have made no defense of atheism - especially considering that I am a Deist and believe in a rational GOD (like our Deist Founding Fathers did). Unlike the god of The Bible which is a hand-me-down tribal totem created by primitive desert nomads.

So sorry to dispel your little black and white world, but atheism is irrelevant to my having utterly destroyed your arguments.
It appears to me that you need to check your facts again as well as your beliefs, but you are at liberty not to.

I dare say... ignorance is not bliss.
 
Old 07-24-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,564,296 times
Reputation: 439
The only reason I turned from the direction I was headed in, atheism, is because there isn't any belief in a higher source of limitless love to stave off the inevitable consequences of atheism.

Atheism believes that we evolved. We are no more than a group of cells that came from monkeys and will turn to dust.

What would stop an atheistic globe from doing the "right" thing?

Love? No.

I'm talking about Nazi-style actions; euthanasia, getting rid of the weak and helpless so they can evolve into something better, ridding the world of the lesser species (whatever they decide the lesser species is), Etc.

They COULD, possibly, reason themselves right out of love and right into something somewhat nightmarish, using logic, to matter-of-factly commit atrocities. We would really be nothing more than robots computing information and spitting it out.


 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:55 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,429,532 times
Reputation: 1311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
What false God? Am I missing something here?
Partly yes...
1. This is a Christian forum ... as such (or should be) any poster should understand that when the word "God" is spelled with a capital "G" it's being defined as the one and only God based soley on the Bible.

2. A false "god" would be any god that isn't defined per the Bible.

3. God isn't saying this as a suggestion. "You shall have no other gods before me." Exodus 20:3, Deuteronomy 5:7. It's either the true God or a false god...either you are for him or you're not.

4.There is no such thing as a false God but there are false god(s).

\\\\\\\ now to the point at hand //////////////

God doesn't care what party you belong to. But if you call yourself Christian....you'd best wear it like skin not a shirt.

"You shall have no other gods before me."
"Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods"
"Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."
"Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you;"
"He who is not with me is against me"

Exodus 23:24-25 ... "Do not bow down before their gods or follow their practices."

You can claim the title christian all day long, but a Christian would not
  • be found in a Mosque ... anywhere
  • "bow down before their gods" ... notice --God never says the amount of times not to bow, once is enough
  • "follow their practices." ...taking off one's shoes
 
Old 07-24-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,610 posts, read 22,074,230 times
Reputation: 18348
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