U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-25-2010, 03:00 PM
 
16 posts, read 92,486 times
Reputation: 29

Advertisements

Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Where in the bible does it say that he forgives the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't say that in this verse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-25-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: in the woods
180 posts, read 229,176 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akron2010 View Post
Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Where in the bible does it say that he forgives the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't say that in this verse.
Hello Akron2010,

A very good question you present, and must be answered. This blasphemy in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of spirit-filled, as such is the case in this verse with the priests and Jesus' exchange. The blasphemy of the spirit now, is the same as the unpardonable sin recorded in Matthew 12 and Mark 3, I believe is the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him. Remember For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. A few verses further down from this it says Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him. Wrath remains. I believe the only condition where someone would have no forgiveness of his sins is if he is not amongst whoever believes in Him, for it is he who rejects the Son. Because it is clear that Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. God bless you in your search.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,491,032 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akron2010 View Post
Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Where in the bible does it say that he forgives the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't say that in this verse.
Matthew 12:32. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Christ was speaking to the Jews, who were not forgiven for speaking evilly of the Spirit of love, forgiveness and reconciliation. They were not forgiven (salvaged) in the pre-cross age and haven't yet been forgiven (salvaged) in this present age.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2010, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,852,455 times
Reputation: 1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akron2010 View Post
Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Where in the bible does it say that he forgives the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't say that in this verse.

It doesn't. There is no forgiveness for the blashphemy against the Holy Ghost.
That sin was, and is, attributing the wondrous works of the Holy Spirit as coming from the devil..from Satan. The Pharisees had just witnessed Jesus heal a man who was possessed of a devil, dumb, and blind. They saw him healed and delivered, but instead of giving God the glory, they accused Jesus of healing by the power of Beelzebub. (Satan...prince of the devils) You can read the context of the story in Matthew 12:22-32
There are people today who say that all healings, deliverences, miracles, etc, come from the devil...every single one of them. (but they will quickly say they're not blaspheming the Holy Ghost: they've come up with a "new definition" of what that sin is, so they can conveniently skip around that little problem)

I understand there are many false signs and wonders these days, but not all healings, miracles, signs, etc come from the devil. If you witness something, and aren't really sure of the "source", then perhaps it's best to just keep one's mouth shut...ie: don't make room for sinning against the Holy Ghost...


Bud
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2010, 07:54 PM
 
Location: in the woods
180 posts, read 229,176 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Matthew 12:32. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Christ was speaking to the Jews, who were not forgiven for speaking evilly of the Spirit of love, forgiveness and reconciliation. They were not forgiven (salvaged) in the pre-cross age and haven't yet been forgiven (salvaged) in this present age.
Hello herefornow,

May I ask you a question? Isn't the age to come what the gospels and epistles described as the new heavens and earth? There are only two ages described in the New Testament. We receive much in this age and in the age to come we will receive eternal life. The age to come is the consummated and reconciled creation which you have attributed to this present age. Jesus rescued us from the present evil age. and The wisdom of this world is the wisdom of this age. and The rulers of this age are coming to nothing. I am curious with this because you are a universalist, at least that is what I can tell of your discussions and opinions. Paul called "this age" the present age he was in, and he called the age to come, the age after Christ has already returned and reconciled the world to Himself. The power of God is far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come for they do not marry. Thank you for taking the time in reading my post. God bless you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2010, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,491,032 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerimiahJohnson View Post
Hello herefornow,

May I ask you a question? Isn't the age to come what the gospels and epistles described as the new heavens and earth? There are only two ages described in the New Testament. We receive much in this age and in the age to come we will receive eternal life. The age to come is the consummated and reconciled creation which you have attributed to this present age. Jesus rescued us from the present evil age. and The wisdom of this world is the wisdom of this age. and The rulers of this age are coming to nothing. I am curious with this because you are a universalist, at least that is what I can tell of your discussions and opinions. Paul called "this age" the present age he was in, and he called the age to come, the age after Christ has already returned and reconciled the world to Himself. The power of God is far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come for they do not marry. Thank you for taking the time in reading my post. God bless you.
I don't believe there were only two ages spoken of in the New Testament.

"No one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or wife or children or land for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age - homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields ... and in the age to come, eternal life." (Mark 10:29-30)

Who among them received a hundred times as much in "this present age," whatever age that might be.

I sincerely do not mean to be confusing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2010, 03:06 PM
 
8,102 posts, read 7,072,801 times
Reputation: 1433
Yes blasphemy against Holy Spirit can be forgiven and Jesus forgives all known sin against Man or the honor of the cross that Jesus has victority in is not completely worthy and Jesus resurrection is not worthy, but if you pass away from this world and the sin against the Holy Spirit or other sin like the mark of the beast or not accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior have not been redeemed then this sin will not be forgive not in this age or the ages to come....... How are we forgiven from blaspheming Holy Spirit? We repent to the Lord, turn form rejecting Jesus and his ways, and from rejecting the gifts of the Holy Spirit, ,,Pray and commanding the Baptism of Holy Spirit to come upon you, for we must accept this gift,,,,, For Holy Spirit cannnot forgive sins, he is called to bless the believers with the gifts of the Lord, like the freedom from the spirit of this world that brings sin, and gift for the purposes of the Lord, if we reject the Holy Spirit who deliver our redemption we will not be delivered and our sins will not be forgiven
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2010, 03:51 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,838,708 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akron2010 View Post
Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Where in the bible does it say that he forgives the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't say that in this verse.

Depends upon what the intent is for forgiveness, if forgiveness means that you will escape reaping the consequenses of your actions then no.

Blasphemy is about paying the penalty for the sin, once that is paid, then your free from obligation.


If forgivness means that God has provided a way to deal with everything you ever do, then yes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2010, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,232,406 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akron2010 View Post
Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Where in the bible does it say that he forgives the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? It doesn't say that in this verse.


Well we seem to have warring scriptures because Mark says blaspheme of the Holy Ghost has aionios forgiveness.


Mark 3:28-29
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

The word never is the Greek word aionios

So in effect that verse would read

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath aionios forgiveness.

So how do these scriptures become reconciled?

Aionios always pertains to an aion, aion means age.

The age to come is speaking of ruling and reigning with Christ for 1000 years

Blaspheme is not forgiven in this age nor the kingdom age, but will be forgiven in the ages to come.

People tend to think that the age to come is the last age but Eph.2:7 tells us there are more ages to come.



Ephesians 2:7
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2010, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,232,406 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
A very good question you present, and must be answered. This blasphemy in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of spirit-filled, as such is the case in this verse with the priests and Jesus' exchange.


Hi JJ, I agree

Quote:
The blasphemy of the spirit now, is the same as the unpardonable sin recorded in Matthew 12 and Mark 3, I believe is the state of continued unbelief.

There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief.

Continual rejection of the Holy Spiritís promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him.


But you are changing what Jesus said blaspheme of the Holy Spirit was.

Jesus never said blaspheme had to do with a state of continual unbelief.

Blaspheme today is the same as it was in Jesusí day and it is acquainting the works of the Holy Spirit to the works of the Devil.

What about those who refuse to forgive in this age?

Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Do they also have no hope in the age to come?


Quote:
Remember For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Eternal life is the life of the age to come, the kingdom age

Quote:
A few verses further down from this it says Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him. Wrath remains.


Yes, whosoever believes in the Son has the life of the age to come, or the kingdom life, those who reject the Son do not have the kingdom life as they are dead.

Revelation 20:5-6
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You are stopping the story at the kingdom age brother, but the kingdom age or life in the kingdom age is only for those who overcome, all others will, and this includes many a Christian, will have their part in the lake of fire.

Revelation 2:11
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.



Quote:
I believe the only condition where someone would have no forgiveness of his sins is if he is not amongst whoever believes in Him, for it is he who rejects the Son. Because it is clear that Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. God bless you in your search.


Yes, it is clear that whosoever confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God that God dwelleth in him. So why then do you believe that those who bow the knee and confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father cannot be saved?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top