Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Does any of the other cultures have an actual crossing of the Red Sea where chariot wheels and skeletal rib cages have been found covered with coral formations at the bottom of this crossing? Did King Solomon not placed a pillar commemorating the site of the crossing on both sides?
Does any of the culture have the place of origin where their "ten commandments" came from as the real Mt. Sinaia has a blackened mountaintop as if from fervent heat and with evidence of Israel's sin of idolatry at the base of this mountain??
I find no real joy in informing you that everyone of Ron Wyatt's "magnificent discoveries" have been proven fraudulent.
Even "Answers in Genesis" recognizes that, as much as they would LOVE Ron's findings to be true, they are all proven to be lacking in any standard archeological proof whatsoever.
Me and my daughter excitedly opened a link a few years back exclaiming "The original Ark of the covenant found!" We were sure it would immediately be a top news story, but alas - we found out it was an old, non-news story.
We were soon disappointed as in every case, for some reason - no evidence can actually be provided or tested.
But looking back at some Ron Wyatt threads here, you already know all this.
Even "Answers in Genesis" recognizes that, as much as they would LOVE Ron's findings to be true, they are all proven to be lacking in any standard archeological proof whatsoever.
Me and my daughter excitedly opened a link a few years back exclaiming "The original Ark of the covenant found!" We were sure it would immediately be a top news story, but alas - we found out it was an old, non-news story.
We were soon disappointed as in every case, for some reason - no evidence can actually be provided or tested.
But looking back at some Ron Wyatt threads here, you already know all this.
Oh well....
Ironically...I bought the book "Noah's Ark" when it was first published...written by David Fassold with his autograph on the first page in 1987..
Ironically...I bought the book "Noah's Ark" when it was first published...written by David Fassold with his autograph on the first page in 1987..
Of course - Christians quickly embrace this stuff because it gives them a real world justification for bible literalism. Same with bible codes, man/dino footprints etc.
I was taught as a child that men have one less rib than women do!
I don't think you will get much argument out of the fallible bible crowd about this post. Most agree that the bible truthfully contains the errors of those who were ignorant of all the facts.
Yes, but there might be reasons to be discovered that in fact Matthew was not in error but removed some of the kings from the lineage for a reason.
That is what I find interesting about the bible, the more you study it, the more you see how truthful it is. And of course as it is written; and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
Even "Answers in Genesis" recognizes that, as much as they would LOVE Ron's findings to be true, they are all proven to be lacking in any standard archeological proof whatsoever.
Me and my daughter excitedly opened a link a few years back exclaiming "The original Ark of the covenant found!" We were sure it would immediately be a top news story, but alas - we found out it was an old, non-news story.
We were soon disappointed as in every case, for some reason - no evidence can actually be provided or tested.
But looking back at some Ron Wyatt threads here, you already know all this.
Oh well....
Be careful with rejecting some of the discoveries. I find that someone makes a significant discovery to prove the bible and then someone in the general public or some archeologist will say it is a fraud and everyone believes them and rejects the discovery. Most of the time the rejection has no real basis.
I have seen alot of Ron Wyatts work and I think there is some validity there. I have seen Ron when he spoke and to judge his character he seemed real to me. I could not detect any lying in what he said. He had a genuine care for the lost soul. So, I think that I would like to go one day and investigate some of his claims for myself. To see first hand some of the locations and artifacts that he found.
I like ansersingenesis as well, I find it strange that they have separated themselves from Ron Wyatts discoveries.
Be careful with rejecting some of the discoveries. I find that someone makes a significant discovery to prove the bible and then someone in the general public or some archeologist will say it is a fraud and everyone believes them and rejects the discovery. Most of the time the rejection has no real basis.
I have seen alot of Ron Wyatts work and I think there is some validity there. I have seen Ron when he spoke and to judge his character he seemed real to me. I could not detect any lying in what he said. He had a genuine care for the lost soul. So, I think that I would like to go one day and investigate some of his claims for myself. To see first hand some of the locations and artifacts that he found.
I like ansersingenesis as well, I find it strange that they have separated themselves from Ron Wyatts discoveries.
I don't think your first paragraph is an accurate description of how Ron became discredited not only in the field of archeology but also by Christian organizations who would be thrilled if his claims were true.
Any real archeologist LIVES for the day they find something as important as a famous biblical artifact - and some have. But when a single amateur supposedly finds all the majors (Ark of the Covenant, Jesus' actual blood (!) Noah's ark, Chariot wheels on the red sea floor) and yet can bring no real evidence to the table, it's too painfully obvious what's going on.
Since there would be many millions to be made from such discoveries, I don't think your idea about someone's work being rejected due to some kind of anti-bible prejudice is valid.
Part of the problem I think is in your statement "someone makes a significant discovery to prove the bible". An archeologist makes a discovery because it is there. Whether the discovery proves the bible or not is a separate issue.
Be careful with rejecting some of the discoveries. I find that someone makes a significant discovery to prove the bible and then someone in the general public or some archeologist will say it is a fraud and everyone believes them and rejects the discovery. Most of the time the rejection has no real basis.
I have seen alot of Ron Wyatts work and I think there is some validity there. I have seen Ron when he spoke and to judge his character he seemed real to me. I could not detect any lying in what he said. He had a genuine care for the lost soul. So, I think that I would like to go one day and investigate some of his claims for myself. To see first hand some of the locations and artifacts that he found.
I like ansersingenesis as well, I find it strange that they have separated themselves from Ron Wyatts discoveries.
Because they've discovered that he is a charlatan...if you want people to take you seriously, you can't associate with charlatans!
I find no real joy in informing you that everyone of Ron Wyatt's "magnificent discoveries" have been proven fraudulent.
There is more going on behind the scenes than what is being publicly known.
At one time, this information can be proven on the internet, using the debunkers own words, but I am having trouble proving it lately. They may have revised their statements to hide the motivation behind the debunkery.
I know that Ron Wyatt was formerly a member of the Seventh Day Adventist and in the course of his ventures, he began to say things contrary to SDA's beliefs and then suddenly that support began to cave away towards debunking him.
I mean, think about it. This one debunker testified that Ron placed these evidence when he was there but yet he did nothing to stop it when it was happening? And after that time of being on site, the debunker was declaring the site as legit until after the inhouse squabblings began that the debunking began a short time afterwards?
That is what I call just grounds for circumspecting the debunkery.
So to avoid the "he said versus he said" argument, let us take in the fact that pictures were taken and showing chariot wheels underwater with coral formation on them and even on rib cages of a skeleton.
The there are two pillars set forth by King Solomon on both sides of the Red Sea crossing.
Then you have a blackened mountaintop of the real Mt. Siniai with archeoligical evidence of the Insraelis encampment at the base of this mountain.
My point here is while everyone is attacking the discoverer, they are denouncing the discovery sites as well and they should not do that.
I mean really. If everybody did that to Christopher Columbus, would America be where it is today?
I find it oddly disturbing that the professional world are dragging their feets to these sites.
So the world is in agreement as it withholds the truths in unrighteousness.
If you had found something of an archeological find that is not Biblically based, how fast would the world respond?
Example: how many times when a construction is being done when a discovery winds up halting everything? And yet these "Ron Wyatt's sites" are denounced simply because Ron Wyatt was there., but no professional team went there to assess the find nor confirm the discovery at all?
Oh well. At least my faith rests on the empty grave of Jesus Christ.
There isn't a single document written by human beings that is inerrant (or infallible) . . . so to ascribe such attributes to the bible is patently absurd and ludicrous on its face. It requires magic-believers and those who deny an undeniable reality.
The spiritual misguidance and reliance on magical, supernatural belief systems (like those of my own mother) can lead to truly abominable everyday beliefs and practices . . . like ET and annihilation. We can not minimize the significance of the passage from Jeremiah 8:8 (Douay-Rheims Translation)
. . . How do you say: We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Indeed the lying pen of the Scribes hath wrought falsehood. .
. .The wise men are confounded, they are dismayed and taken . . . and there is no wisdom in them. They are confounded because they have committed abomination: yea rather they are not confounded with confusion.
(Young's Literal Translation)
8How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.
especially the sentence describing those who interpret and administer "laws:" "They are confounded because they have committed abomination: . . ."
The bible is useful for instruction and it is intended for all audiences: past, present and future. Therefore it is essential to understand that our ancestors did not use time linearly as we do. The bible is NOT a historical document to be applied only to specific time lines. It is also to be interpreted spiritually The circular use of time only documents events . . . and they can repeat through time. How often has it been said "History repeats itself." (This singular insight actually makes BOTH the Preterists and the Futurists correct).
Recognizing this aspect of scripture allows us to apply increased spiritual maturity, insight, sophistication, knowledge, and understanding in the application of interpretations to issues and situations. For example,
Christ refers us to the prophesy of Daniel to understand the kind of abomination that has occurred since His rebirth as Spirit. It is in a particularly significant passage of prophesy concerning the end of the world found in Matthew 24:14.
. . . And the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a witness to all nations; and then will come the end. Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place - let him who reads understand
Conventionally, biblical scholars typically construe the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel ONLY as the idol of Jupiter Olympius, which was placed in the sanctuary of the Temple by Antiochus. This is linear thinking using specific history and time lines. But . . . obviously to apply the prophesy of Daniel to the end of the world it must not be interpreted as events of that time period . . . but as a prediction of a time yet to be in our future (or so it seems to me). This is borne out by the fact that the world has not yet ended! The world should long ago have perished if that interpretation was the one Jesus was pointing us to. The excerpt referred to from Daniel 9:27:
. . . and there shall be in the Temple the abomination of desolation: and desolation shall continue even to the consummation and to the end.
Desolation means isolation. Abomination means loathsome. That which is loathsome of isolation is the ignorance it produces. That is coincidentally the very problem of our soul as described in the eastern religions. Our individual souls because of their isolation in our human bodies, separated from the supreme soul (God), flounder in ignorance. That is the abomination of isolation - ignorance.
The temple refers to our body which is the temple of our soul. There is ignorance in us as the result of our soul's isolation and the isolation will continue to the consummation of the world. There is danger from this abomination . . . but, there is also hope that the ignorance can be defeated. From Daniel 11:31,
. . . and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice, and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation. And such as deal wickedly against the covenant shall deceitfully dissemble: But the people that know their God shall prevail and succeed. And they that are learned among the people shall teach many.
The sanctuary of strength is a reference to Christ and the church that would follow him. The continual sacrifice, then, would be the concept of continual self-control that has been taken away from Christ's church. It has been replaced by concepts of salvation (magically) through merely consciously "believing in" Christ . . . (instead of internally "believing on" Christ and living His Way in "love of God and each other" building on the foundation He has laid) . . . or performing various rituals or "sacraments" . . . or following some charismatic leader's pronouncements (which invariably involve a request for money).
THAT is the abomination (or ignorance) that has been placed in the sanctuary (Christ's church). However, the sincere believers in God apparently shall prevail and succeed anyway.
The phrase, "they that are learned among the people shall teach many," seems a hollow comfort in this day and age when we see so many "learned" floundering in their own confusion and spiritual barrenness. The majority of those who become "learned" seem to lose their spiritual way in the process. It is easy to do as the firmly held truths and teachings from one's childhood are shown to be foolishness, or pure fantasy unsupported by logic or reason. For these "learned" victims of religious faith anything connected with God or religion can readily become distasteful as cynicism sets in. Consequently, the "learned" tend to generate a lot of criticism toward the many unscrupulous, pompous, or merely misguided religious leaders and institutions . . . but very little real spiritual guidance from the "learned" ever reaches the "many." (My presence here has been my attempt to change that somewhat before I die.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57
Mystic...we may not see eye to eye in ALL things...but this OP reveals the true nature of bible prophecies spoken by the prophets of God. I couldn't have said it more eloquently than you have...even if I tried...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Wow excellent post Mystic!! Very insightful and right on target. I second what Ans57 said. I tried to rep you but I can't right now. Thank you for sharing this.
You beautiful people make posting here a true blessing. Witnessing our precious DOTL's transformation into Ilene has been almost as inspiring as the transformation of Saul into Paul!! God bless you, my brothers and sisters in Christ!
Be Well,
Mystic
This thread was thought of while reading a post talking about secret codes within the genealogy of Jesus.The subject seemed to deserve more than just a buried post in another thread.
The issue is this.The genealogy in Matthew is wrong.On 2 accounts.
First,it leaves out direct descendants from Abraham to Jesus.Compare Mt 1:1 to 1 Chron 3:10-16.Matthew leaves entire generations of direct father to son descendants out while trying to achieve a mystical number of 42 generations to Jesus.Specifically,start comparing Mt 1:9 with 1 Chron 3:11. 3 generations are skipped,apparently intentionally.So why would God need to dictate to Matthew to leave out 3 generations to get the magical 42 generations?He could have made sure there was only 42 generations instead of having to tell Matthew to just leave out a few and hope no one notices.
Second,Matthew's count is wrong.Mt 1:1 does not even contain the 42 generations he is striving for.It has 41.Count them yourself.It's a pretty safe bet that if God were dictating Scripture to Matthew as so many literalists believe that He would get the count right.
Now,this thread is not a bash the Bible thread.Nor is it a bash the literalists thread.It is simply a thread bringing up the obvious problems of an inerreant Bible in light of the issues of Mt 1:1. If the ability to discuss this without insults,judgements on the Christianity of others,or other personal attacks and namecalling is beyond anyone,then please,let the adults discuss this.Adults who have the capacity to discuss the subject at hand without resorting to attacks as a substitute for having anything substantive to say on the issue.
So how is Matthew without error in light of these issues?
Believers in The Doctrine of Jesus Christ Resurrected...while we (littlewitness) share a disregard for "scholastic certification" approved by men...this much is certain:it is necessary for folks to take all Biblical statements into account before coming to a final conclusion. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring us to the end of ourselves...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
God bless you, my brothers and sisters in Christ!
