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Old 09-12-2010, 10:07 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,720,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Paul was referring to his old man who used to persecute Christians. To prove this, Paul said:

1 Corithians 6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were [past tense] some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Paul said he was the cheif among sinners in the present tense, not in the past tense. What does that mean? Why didn't he say that he had been the chief among sinners before his conversion? And int he same context he said he was the chief among apostles in the present tense.

When we are in Christ, we are imputed with is righteousness, that is to say we who are all ungodly are justified.

Quote:
The thorn in the flesh was not sickness nor a sin; the messenger of Satan [a person] was following Paul around trying to disrupt God's work; Paul wanted the messenger removed, but Jesus said His grace was sufficient. Through this experience, Paul learned how Jesus handled persecutions from the enemy.
According to your interpretation ... Yet there is no indication of what you say in the scriptures.

Grace has to do with salvation, for we are saved by Grace. If the thorn is Paul's flesh was some illness, what has that to do with his salvation that Gods grace should suffice? That doesn't make any sense.

I disagree with you interpretation.



Peace.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:25 AM
 
5,438 posts, read 5,916,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Paul said he was the cheif among sinners in the present tense, not in the past tense. What does that mean? Why didn't he say that he had been the chief among sinners before his conversion? And int he same context he said he was the chief among apostles in the present tense.
Theories of men.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:37 AM
 
Location: West Coast USA
1,577 posts, read 2,242,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I am asking if Gods grace in Christ is good enough for the salvation of sinners. Or must we live without ever sinning?

Does the grace of God in Christ suffice, or is the something that we have to do to be saved?
YOU know your answer. I was Arminian for over 50 years and just started seriously studying this particular subject in the last month as reformed, although I did take a class on it two years ago.

When one has the Arminian doctrine buried to solidly in one's head (or any other doctrine, for that matter), it is difficult to completely pull out all the junk and burn it up.

When it comes to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Does the grace of God in Christ suffice, or is the something that we have to do to be saved?
both Arminians and Reformed have an answer, and the answers are dichotomous, but satisfying to the divergent ideas. Your answer will not satisfy everyone, nor will mine -- even though mine is more likely similar to yours now.

Bottom line: such questions cannot satisfy the subject.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:09 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Paul was referring to his old man who used to persecute Christians. To prove this, Paul said:

1 Corithians 6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were [past tense] some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.



The thorn in the flesh was not sickness nor a sin; the messenger of satan [a person] was following Paul around trying to disrupt God's work; Paul wanted the messenger removed, but Jesus said His grace was sufficient. Through this experience, Paul learned how Jesus handled persecutions from the enemy.
Paul was not referring to his old man...The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God...However a believer is positionally righteous because of Christ's sacrifice and payment for sin...If being a believer really took away the sin nature then the Apostles would not be writing letters speaking about it and attempting to staighten the believers out, there would be no need because the true believer no longer has the sin nature, it is the sin nature that causes us to sin...And further proof that Paul was not speaking of the old man was that he stated that in his mind he served the Law of God but in his flesh the law of sin...so, it is no longer i who sin, but sin living in me...
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:56 AM
 
30 posts, read 23,801 times
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Our whole purpose of life is to seek and find god.. to be reunited with him as we were in the beginning. this should be our only focus in life.. all else will be added unto us by the most high..

TO become free from sin and union with god is the purpose of Life. It is not only possible it is necessary.
When we die to our sinful nature we are born again. into the true inward life.. we are new creatures free of sin.no longer slaves to the serpent .. but humble servants of the most high.
Peace.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,627,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbleservants View Post
Our whole purpose of life is to seek and find god.. to be reunited with him as we were in the beginning. this should be our only focus in life.. all else will be added unto us by the most high..

TO become free from sin and union with god is the purpose of Life. It is not only possible it is necessary.
When we die to our sinful nature we are born again. into the true inward life.. we are new creatures free of sin.no longer slaves to the serpent .. but humble servants of the most high.
Peace.
...and a big AMEN! to that humbleservants!!!
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:19 AM
 
Location: West Coast USA
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If I ever met one person who managed to live without sin, other than Messiah, I would be convinced. Still looking for that one.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,429,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
If that's the case, then everybody is going to hell because a willful sinner will never enter God's heaven. What were you saved from if you still commit sin(s)? If God found the sin of Adam & Eve to be unacceptable, why would He overlook your sin(s)? Jesus' blood does not cover willful sin(s), unless you completely walk away from that sin to commit it [them] no more; that's godly sorrow. You must accept the fact that God expects us to sin no more. Period. If you have not been delivered from all your sins, then you have to yield to Jesus and His blood until you are set completely free.

Do you still lie? Drink? Smoke? Cheat? Curse? Gossip? Tell shady jokes? Are you of the world? These sins, and all others, must go.

And, it's false teaching to say that walking in God's holiness is works, when in fact it is His demand.

Those Who Won't Inherit the Kingdom of God
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Pet. 4:18)

That is why it is a narrow path and not a broad one!
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:32 AM
 
30 posts, read 23,801 times
Reputation: 20
this is a dark world we are in where very few are willing to walk the narrow path. they are not recognised by the world for they are not trying to please the world, they have turned their backs on the worldly things and have their eyes on the most high. seek god with all your heart and he will give you proof. you will be the proof and you will be convinced.
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: West Coast USA
1,577 posts, read 2,242,243 times
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I raised among Arminians, lived among Arminians, and have not yet met one who had their own righteousness; in other words, not one that did not sin among hundreds I knew. I was convinced that they didn't until I got older and my eyes were opened, seeing what they were trying to hide. I was disappointed initially, but begand to search the Scriptures for an explanation. I the explanation in those Scriptures.

When I left the Arminian beliefs, I would say, "Oh, well. I believe the reformed doctrine but live like an Arminian." I no longer say that. Now, I realize that the reformed persons will actually admit that they sin and will repent of that sin; I did not find either admittance or repentance for sin among Arminians.

Many Arminians, in order to justify themselves, say that the reformed love their sin, revelling in it. I have met maybe one or two like that, so I know they exist. Some will say that the reformed are under oppression because they think they can't so much as turn around without sinning. I met one like that on the Internet once, so I know they exist.

But the majority I have met are very sensitive to their own sins, ready instantly to repent, and seek G-d for purity all the time. These are my kind of people. I love their honesty and appreciate their love for G-d and study and for pure living.
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