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I think no one can convince oneself to believe. Belief/faith in God comes from the outside-it is not an act of one's will. I would suggest allowing the belief to come. It comes from God and a willing heart. A heart that wants to receive.
I understand what you are saying, but because I am not able to "receive" anything, does that mean I have done something wrong...maybe I turned God away somehow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
I also see a spirit of distrust. That can get in the way of receiving.
I do distrust. It's what makes me good at my job. Everyday I deal with people who lie, cheat and steal. I know that people have agendas and should not be trusted.
I understand what you are saying, but because I am not able to "receive" anything, does that mean I have done something wrong...maybe I turned God away somehow.
I do distrust. It's what makes me good at my job. Everyday I deal with people who lie, cheat and steal. I know that people have agendas and should not be trusted.
You have to seperate your job from your daily life. Leave it at the office.
in Matthew 18:1-5......``Verily I say unto you Except you be converted and become as little children you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.... Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child the same is greatest in the kingdom of Heaven``..........See if we are able to be lead by the Lord God as a child being lead by his parent and not reason out faith to the Lord .... Other ways it find the Lord Jesus is to talk to him. See the Lord God does not talk to anyone who does not talk and pray persistantly to him .... So go for it , Talk in to the wind to The Lord Jesus and he will draw you into HIS being and give you purpose that you were born on this earth for.... Go for it the mystery of all the ages is there, He hears and waits and desires you beyond belief........
I have been a lifelong agnostic, but not for a lack of trying. I am an intensely analytical thinker and spent a good portion of my 31 years trying to convince myself to believe. I think I can wrap up my struggle in a few key points:
First, I am a trained investigator; and it comes to me naturally. I investigate financial fraud, but the methods of inquiry are the same. In my accounting studies, I was taught "don't trust anybody" when it comes to auditing financials, checking documentation, etc...always check and double-check for yourself and confirm the facts as presented to you.
Second, I have always felt that organized religion and clergy are just like the guys on television who try and sell the "make money in real estate with no money down". They sure talk an exciting game but if you asked them to see the financials they cannot deliver. If I asked a priest to show me the proof for the existence of God, he would no doubt point me to Thomas Aquinas' five proofs, provide stories of miracles, or even expound upon the numerous saints whose life works validate the existence of God. But none of this actually connects "A" to "B" such that I can positively test and confirm the existence of God.
Third, even though I went to a Catholic high school, I can't honestly say that if I were a strong believer that I would know which church is the right church. They all claim to be the right church, which leaves me to be more skeptical and resort to the thinking that I presented in point #2. They are all selling something, of course they are all going to say they are the right church.
How do people who have faith commit to it and not constantly question it?
I've been a skeptic all my life too. I'm too analytical to just take things on faith. For me, the simple fact I keep trying to walk away but can't says a lot. I keep getting pulled back...by something.
A book I'd, highly, recommend is Lee Strobel's (sp?) "The Case for Christ". It's an analytical investigation into the claims of the bible surrounding Christ wtitten by an investigative reporter whose initial intent was to disprove the claims. He ended up convincing himself.
On my reading list for this summer is his sister book "The case for Faith".
For me, I find God not in the bible but in science. I'm a former chemical engineer turned chemistry teacher. I cannot look at science, after studying it for years, and believe that this all just poofed out of nothing with nothing causing the poof. I just can't. Logic tells me something caused the poof (if there was one but even if there wasn't, I believe that everything is as if there was one because I believe that everything follows the rules of this universe but I digress...). So I have a basic belief in something outside of this universe that always existed that caused this universe to come into existence but it's a long way from there to picking a religion and having true faith.
I figure God created me to question so question I must. I also figure he understands that. I think he honors the search so keep searching.
I will add one more thing. My mother used to say "Walk the walk and soon you'll talk the talk". What she meant was that if you want something to become reality, act like it already is reality. Pray, study, join a church... Let God become part of your routine.
Think about it. If I wanted to become a concert pianist and I started acting like one today, I'd get a good teacher (even the best have teachers who critique their work) and I'd practice hours per day. If I did that for a few years, I might not be a concert pianist but I'd sure be a lot better than I am now. Start walking the walk (said by someone who has forgotten to do that lately ) and see what happens.
I'm kind of looking for a study partner for "The Case for Faith". If you get to that book, let me know. We sound very like minded and I think it could do us both some good to discuss the book.
in Matthew 18:1-5......``Verily I say unto you Except you be converted and become as little children you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.... Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child the same is greatest in the kingdom of Heaven``..........See if we are able to be lead by the Lord God as a child being lead by his parent and not reason out faith to the Lord .... Other ways it find the Lord Jesus is to talk to him. See the Lord God does not talk to anyone who does not talk and pray persistantly to him .... So go for it , Talk in to the wind to The Lord Jesus and he will draw you into HIS being and give you purpose that you were born on this earth for.... Go for it the mystery of all the ages is there, He hears and waits and desires you beyond belief........
Little children question, learn and test the boundaries so the OP is being like a little child.
As an agnostic by pure lack of faith, it is difficult for me. I'm at a point in my life where I want to believe in something and I believe there is likely something out there, I'm not a complete atheist. I just find it very difficult to pursue organized religion. It is a frickin' mess! Priests raping little boys, televangelists stealing your money, every denomination saying their way or the highway! Who wants to be a part of that? Every bit of my common sense side says that Christianity is a fable or at least a well enhanced story about mankind's needs to believe in something more. To me, it almost seems like a giant cult. The one comment I have always thrown out there when having discussions with friends is "How can a billion Chinamen be wrong" There are so many other religions that make sense as well, who is to say that their god is the right god? I think I have just talked myself into believing what I have believed for years, there is likely a creator. He wants us to do well and live a good morale life. He doesn't need a temple and he doesn't need money. He simply wants us to do good in our day to day life and I sure hope that is enough, because I just don't see any book, person or argument that can make me stop thinking the way I think.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
Some observations and suggestions. I bolded what I think are key points.
I think no one can convince oneself to believe. Belief/faith in God comes from the outside-it is not an act of one's will. I would suggest allowing the belief to come. It comes from God and a willing heart. A heart that wants to receive. I also see a spirit of distrust. That can get in the way of receiving.
As to "proof" of God. The evidence is all around you. How one interpretes the evidence is what matters. The Laws of Nature suggest a non-chance origin. Math? (Boy-I am puzzled why there are any agnostic/atheistic mathematicians.) One can dismiss the way DNA works as the result of mere chance or see it as evidence of a designer.
And guess what I have discovered along the way? 95% of churches are right! Right for whom is the real question. God places each of us in a body of believers and finding the right church is a matter of searching. And church doesn't have to be in a church building-it could be a home fellowship group.
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Personally, what keeps me going and lifts away the seeds of doubt is the Holy Spirit. All of the intelletual arguements in the world fall flat in the light of God's presence in my life.
If you've read my posts I too am struggling with faith, for various reasons, but over time I have come to see it more as a process of seeking, of finding the truth. Hopefully it will be a constructive process because I am interested in the truth and nothing but the truth; I am not interested in trying to prove or disprove it for other reasons.
For years I too tried to convince myself of certain things; then I realized the harder I tried, the more phony it felt. Sometimes you just have to let things rest for awhile, approach a thing afresh, and you'll see it in a new light.
I was thinking the other day how the cynicism of doubt of the world has infected me. While I think that Christians who avoid any book about religion or science not written by a Christian are a bit insecure in the faith, I've also come to realize that secular does not equal impartial and unbiased. While I think most scientists and scholars without an agenda to proselytize (I had to google that word to check the spelling lol) do want to pursue truth for truth's sake, they are coming from a secular, humanist view of the world.
Ultimately, faith is an interplay between the personal and the facts of the matter. Everyone will approach it in a different way. I think ultimately what matters is where your conscience leads you, the still small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to you.
As an agnostic by pure lack of faith, it is difficult for me. I'm at a point in my life where I want to believe in something and I believe there is likely something out there, I'm not a complete atheist. I just find it very difficult to pursue organized religion. It is a frickin' mess! Priests raping little boys, televangelists stealing your money, every denomination saying their way or the highway! Who wants to be a part of that?
<snip>
I think I have just talked myself into believing what I have believed for years, there is likely a creator. He wants us to do well and live a good morale life. He doesn't need a temple and he doesn't need money. He simply wants us to do good in our day to day life and I sure hope that is enough, because I just don't see any book, person or argument that can make me stop thinking the way I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20
If you've read my posts I too am struggling with faith, for various reasons, but over time I have come to see it more as a process of seeking, of finding the truth. Hopefully it will be a constructive process because I am interested in the truth and nothing but the truth; I am not interested in trying to prove or disprove it for other reasons.
<snip> I think ultimately what matters is where your conscience leads you, the still small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to you.
It is simple and uncomplicated . . . just "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. It covers ALL the bases.
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) and see what happens. 
