Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We are saved by GRACE alone. The only place in the Bible that "faith alone" is found, the words "not by" appear immediately before that. So faith alone folks, sorry.
So many opinions, so little authority. And this particular topic is vitally important so you better get it right.
Indeed you had better get it right. Man is NOT saved by grace alone apart from personal faith in Christ. Man is saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. And the authority is the word of God. Salvation is a grace gift from God which is appropriated through faith in Jesus Christ. We are not saved apart from faith expressed toward Christ who did the work of salvation on the cross. God provided the means of salvation through the substitutionary work of Jesus Christ on the cross. But unless a person exercises faith in Christ he doesn't appropriate what Jesus Christ did on the cross on his behalf and remains under eternal condemnation.
To say that we are saved by grace alone, apart from faith is heresy. How many times now have I said that the merit is not in the faith, but in the object of faith which is Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8 'For by grace you have been saved through faith (alone); and that (salvation) is not of yourself, it is the gift of God; 9] not of works, that no one should boast.
John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes (has faith) in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 1:12 'But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.
No one is saved apart from faith alone in Christ alone. No one is saved by adding anything to faith for the purpose of salvation.
Titus 3:5 'He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regerneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.
Again, baptism is simply a testimony to the believers faith. Yes Jesus expects those who have believed in Him to obey Him. The only way an unbeliever can obey Jesus is by believing in Him for salvation.AFTER he has been saved, then he is expected to obey the commandments of the Lord. But whether he does or not, doesn't negate the fact that he has already been saved.
Mike, this will probably be my last post on this thread unless you admit that the above statement is absolutely false.
Compare your statement with these words from the Apostle Paul in ch 6 of Romans:
[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
The man you referred to above in your post #93 was still a servant of sin, not a servant of obdience unto righteousness.
The angel who appeared to Mary to announce that she would become the mother of the Christ said, "Thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." We must become servants of righteousness to demonstrate genuine faith.
Heb. 5:[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Originally Posted by Mike555
Again, baptism is simply a testimony to the believers faith. Yes Jesus expects those who have believed in Him to obey Him. The only way an unbeliever can obey Jesus is by believing in Him for salvation. AFTER he has been saved, then he is expected to obey the commandments of the Lord. But whether he does or not, doesn't negate the fact that he has already been saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince
Mike, this will probably be my last post on this thread unless you admit that the above statement is absolutely false.
Compare your statement with these words from the Apostle Paul in ch 6 of Romans:
[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
The man you referred to above in your post #93 was still a servant of sin, not a servant of obdience unto righteousness.
The angel who appeared to Mary to announce that she would become the mother of the Christ said, "Thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." We must become servants of righteousness to demonstrate genuine faith.
Heb. 5:[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
You said;
''Mike, this will probably be my last post on this thread unless you admit that the above statement is absolutely false.''
Don't hold your breath. What I said is absolutely true. The only thing the unbeliever can do to be saved is to simply believe in Christ for salvation. The believer after he has been saved can only advance to spiritual maturity by learning and applying Bible doctrine.
Sin is not an issue in salvation. The reason sin is not an issue in salvation is because Jesus Christ has already paid the penalty for every sin that ever has been and ever will be committed in the history of the human race. The only issue in salvation is will you put your complete trust in Christ to save you. Will you believe in Christ. If you do, then you are eternally saved. If you don't then you are eternally lost.
The believers sins after salvation only put him out of fellowship with God and under the control of his old sin nature and bring about divine discipline if he fails to name his sins to God as per 1 John 1:9. They do not cause him to lose his salvation. The believers sins are handled as a family matter as per (Prov 3:11-12; Heb 12:5-13; Rev3:19-21)
The believer cannot lose his salvation. Solomon is a perfect illustration of that fact. He had turned his back on God for a large part of his adult life. He went off course and tried to find happiness in life in the same manner as an unbeliever would. Through pleasure - including sex, success, wealth, philosophy, education, reputation. His thinking was that of an unbeliever. Yet he never lost his salvation. And he finally did turn back to God before he died.
King Saul is another example of a believer who turned his back on God. He died under maximum divine discipline, and yet he never lost his salvation.
Both men were believers. They both turned away from God through disobedience. You cannot make the claim that they were never saved in the first place just because they got off track and went into reversionism.
No one is advocating living in sin. I am stating a priinciple of grace. Once a person is saved, he is always saved, regardless of how he lives his life after salvation. Whether he advances to spiritual maturity or not will determine the extent to which he is blessed or disciplined in time, and the extent of his eternal blessings. His eternal salvation is not an issue.
Thank you for your well laid out article. Once saved always saved is a irrefutable doctrine, as the Bible speaks volumes on it. Man cannot backslide and be saved, it just doesn't happen. They were never saved to begin with. God bless you.
A child of God can indeed backslide, and he/she will go to hell in that backslidden condition. He/she needs to repent with godly sorrow just like the person who has never accepted Jesus; both types are on the broad road -- and that road leads to a furnace of fire.
A child of God can indeed backslide, and he/she will go to hell in that backslidden condition. He/she needs to repent with godly sorrow just like the person who has never accepted Jesus; both types are on the broad road -- and that road leads to a furnace of fire.
No, no one who has believed in Christ, no one who has been saved will ever lose his salvation. As I said in the last post, sin is not an issue in salvation because Jesus already took care of the sin problem. The ONLY issue in salvation is have you believed in Christ for salvation.
This will shock the legalists, but believers in Christ can sin with the best of them. The believers POSITION in Christ - positional sanctification is not affected in the least by the way he lives after salvation.
A disobedient believer will be disciplined in time, but he remains saved forever.
No, no one who has believed in Christ, no one who has been saved will ever lose his salvation. As I said in the last post, sin is not an issue in salvation because Jesus already took care of the sin problem. The ONLY issue in salvation is have you believed in Christ for salvation.
This will shock the legalists, but believers in Christ can sin with the best of them. The believers POSITION in Christ - positional sanctification is not affected in the least by the way he lives after salvation.
A disobedient believer will be disciplined in time, but he remains saved forever.
The doctrine of "once saved always saved" is damning souls throughout the world. I wonder how many souls are screaming in hell right now because they fell for this "once saved always saved" doctrine? Truth is, once a person has been washed clean of all their sins, and then willfully sins again, then that person is on the road to hell, again; the Spirit of grace has lifted, and the devil becomes his/her father again. This backslidder would need to repent with godly sorrow again to get right with God. And when a person exhibits godly sorrow, he/she is determined to put sin away for good. Jesus does not accept apologies for sin if we are not determined to forsake those sins. The soul that continues to sin will die, whether they profess Jesus or not.
The only way for this "once saved always saved" doctrine to be true is if a soul gets saved, and stays saved through obedience until the end.
A child of God can indeed backslide, and he/she will go to hell in that backslidden condition. He/she needs to repent with godly sorrow just like the person who has never accepted Jesus; both types are on the broad road -- and that road leads to a furnace of fire.
Deuteronomy 4:20. But the LORD has taken you and brought you out of the iron furnace, out of Egypt, to be a people of his own inheritance, as you are this day.
Daniel 7:10. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
Thank you Mike. I was reading Romans last night and Paul couldn't make it anymore clear that we are justified by faith apart from the law. Works have NOTHING to do with salvation. How can salvation be a gift if one has to earn it? How can we add to what Jesus did on the cross? Adding works to salvation is telling God that what He did on the cross wasn't enough. If one can lose their salvation by sinning then gain it back by obeying God, does the Holy Spirit leave you then come back inside of you? This is ridiculous. He will never leave you nor forsake you. When you think you have to do works to maintain your salvation you'll never understand the grace of God. People combine justification and sanctification. It breaks my heart.
The doctrine of "once saved always saved" is damning souls throughout the world. I wonder how many souls are screaming in hell right now because they fell for this "once saved always saved" doctrine? Truth is, once a person has been washed clean of all their sins, and then willfully sins again, then that person is on the road to hell, again; the Spirit of grace has lifted, and the devil becomes his/her father again. This backslidder would need to repent with godly sorrow again to get right with God. And when a person exhibits godly sorrow, he/she is determined to put sin away for good. Jesus does not accept apologies for sin if we are not determined to forsake those sins. The soul that continues to sin will die, whether they profess Jesus or not.
The only way for this "once saved always saved" doctrine to be true is if a soul gets saved, and stays saved through obedience until the end.
scgraham,
I agree fully with you and disagree with Mike. Where is there any indication in the Bible that Saul, or even Solomon were saved after they fell into sin?
Ezekial 33rd ch. says,"[13] When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
[18] When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Last edited by Robert M Prince; 10-15-2010 at 01:52 PM..
Reason: typo
The doctrine of "once saved always saved" is damning souls throughout the world. I wonder how many souls are screaming in hell right now because they fell for this "once saved always saved" doctrine? Truth is, once a person has been washed clean of all their sins, and then willfully sins again, then that person is on the road to hell, again; the Spirit of grace has lifted, and the devil becomes his/her father again. This backslidder would need to repent with godly sorrow again to get right with God. And when a person exhibits godly sorrow, he/she is determined to put sin away for good. Jesus does not accept apologies for sin if we are not determined to forsake those sins. The soul that continues to sin will die, whether they profess Jesus or not.
The only way for this "once saved always saved" doctrine to be true is if a soul gets saved, and stays saved through obedience until the end.
To the contrary. It is the hight of arrogance to think that you can undo what God has done. God has done ALL the work involved in providing salvation for man. Once a person has believed in Christ for salvation he is kept by the power of God for all eternity future.
Can you not understand the simple fact that you cannot commit one single sin for which Christ has not already paid the penalty? If you can understand that, then how is that you can think that when you get around to actually commiting that sin for which Christ has already died, that it will somehow undo what Christ did in paying for it? At the Great White Throne judgment at the end of the Millennium when the unbeliever has been resurrected to stand before Jesus for final sentencing to the lake of fire where he will reside forever, sin will never be mentioned. The only thing which will be mentioned is the unbelievers works. It is his works which will be the basis for his condemnation. Not his sins. They have already been paid for. The believer will never appear at the Great White Throne judgment, and he will never have any part of the lake of fire.
God has imputed HIS perfect righteousness to the believer and He does not withdraw it because a believer sins, no matter how many times he sins. The issue is NEVER the believers righteousness. The issue is that the believer has GOD'S perfect righteousness imputed to him and that is what God sees when he looks at the believer - HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS. God has already pronounced the believer to be justified.
Now understand this.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
At the moment of faith in Christ, the believer is positionally sanctified and has been positionally perfected forever.
It is impossible for the believer to undo his eternal salvation.
Sin does not undo God's grace. Grace is all that God is free to do for man on the basis of the Cross. And what Christ did on the cross is appropriated by a simple act of non-meritorious faith.
For those who will, here is a thread of mine which lists the 40 things which God does for the church-age believer at the moment of salvation and which secure the believer's salvation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
