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Old 08-14-2010, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,864,080 times
Reputation: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments...and He knows who doesn't by who does not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna

A true Christian is one who loves God with all of their heart...all of their mind...and with all of their strength...above anyone...anything...and everything else in their entire life. If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Verna,

Matthew 7:1-5 states: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
I have repented of my sins...and have been born again...converted...transformed...and daily! I pick up my cross and follow Him...daily! I am faced with choices to make between right and wrong!...daily I go through trials and tests!...and daily I run to Jesus...constantly I run to Jesus...and it is His Spirit within me that gives me the power to overome any and every obstacle that comes my way!...He always gives me a way out!!...and I take it!!!

I have cast the beam out of mine own eye...I live what I am teaching...I cannot be accused of being a hypocrite! I have reformed myself...that I may help to reform my brother...or my sister...that I may qualify to do so. God knows me...He knows I live what I teach...I would never in a thousand years sit here and teach others to do what I do not live myself first! God forbid!......I would never, ever do that!

It is not judging...it is reproving.

What I am learning here though...(Praise God! for still! learning!)...is, it is not every one that is fit to be reproved...this has been the hardest lesson to learn...but I'm getting it!....Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...IOW...don't preach it to the wicked and profane...(not that Christ himself preached to the publicans and the sinners), but not to the obstinate, who, after preaching the gospel to them...they blasphemed it and persecuted the preachers of it!...I shouldn't spend so much time doing so...for it is lost labor...

..."Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.' Acts 13:41.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
Do you not see that your statement to Bob (YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU!) makes you guilty of judging him?
Not my judgement..God's..I happen to believe it though, and live by it......

..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
This commandment is as important as the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy.
This is quite a statement katzpur....seeing that you do not believe that the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is even! important enough for you to keep it!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
Is it not possible that Bob interprets the 4th commandment differently than you do, and that he is not lying at all? Most Christians believe that when Christ's Apostles began to gather together to worship and remember Him on the first day of the week instead of on the seventh, that it was in accordance to God's will. That's what I believe, and I can assure you that I do love God. Maybe I'm wrong in what I believe. Maybe most Christians are. Maybe you're right. Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, though, you definitely made one good point. God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments. Don't you think He is better able than you are to know the condition of our hearts? Don't you believe that sincerity counts for anything?[.quote]

...sincerity...? katzpur...?....sincerity about not keeping the Sabbath holy...? That is sincerely not believing in God's word!
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
And one last thing... Are you without sin?
I do not sin willfully. IF I DID, AND WERE HERE TEACHING YOU TO DO OTHERWISE, I WOULD DIE SEPARATED FROM GOD FOREVER FOR LYING! I would never! do that! I keep the commandments of God...not because I think it will save me, but because I love Him...and it is THIS! love of God! that God loves and accepts from his own...as His own...for all eternity...it is THIS! faith in Him that God so loves and accepts!

In Christ love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 08-14-2010 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,864,080 times
Reputation: 810
...You say my response is UN - CHRISTIAN? Wow...just wow....so what is a Christian to you katzpur?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Verna,

Matthew 7:1-5 states: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
I have repented of my sins...and have been born again...converted...transformed...and daily! I pick up my cross and follow Him...daily! I am faced with choices to make between right and wrong!...daily I go through trials and tests!...and daily I run to Jesus...constantly I run to Jesus...and it is His Spirit within me that gives me the power to overome any and every obstacle that comes my way!...He always gives me a way out!!...and I take it!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna

I have cast the beam out of mine own eye...I live what I am teaching...I cannot be accused of being a hypocrite! I have reformed myself...that I may help to reform my brother...or my sister...that I may qualify to do so. God knows me...He knows I live what I teach...I would never in a thousand years sit here and teach others to do what I do not live myself first! God forbid!......I would never, ever do that!

It is not judging...it is reproving.

What I am learning here though...(Praise God! for still! learning!)...is, it is not every one that is fit to be reproved...this has been the hardest lesson to learn...but I'm getting it!....Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...IOW...don't preach it to the wicked and profane...(not that Christ himself preached to the publicans and the sinners), but not to the obstinate, who, after preaching the gospel to them...they blasphemed it and persecuted the preachers of it!...I shouldn't spend so much time doing so...for it is lost labor...

..."Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.' Acts 13:41.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
Do you not see that your statement to Bob (YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU!) makes you guilty of judging him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
Not my judgement..God's..I happen to believe it though, and live by it......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna

..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
This commandment is as important as the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
This is quite a statement katzpur....seeing that you do not believe that the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is even! important enough for you to keep it!!!!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
Is it not possible that Bob interprets the 4th commandment differently than you do, and that he is not lying at all? Most Christians believe that when Christ's Apostles began to gather together to worship and remember Him on the first day of the week instead of on the seventh, that it was in accordance to God's will. That's what I believe, and I can assure you that I do love God. Maybe I'm wrong in what I believe. Maybe most Christians are. Maybe you're right. Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, though, you definitely made one good point. God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments. Don't you think He is better able than you are to know the condition of our hearts? Don't you believe that sincerity counts for anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
...sincerity...? katzpur...?....sincerity about not keeping the Sabbath holy...? That is sincerely not belivieng in God's word!


Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpur
And one last thing... Are you without sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna
I do not sin willfully. IF I DID, AND WERE HERE TEACHING YOU TO DO OTHERWISE, I WOULD DIE SEPARATED FROM GOD FOREVER FOR LYING! I would never! do that! I keep the commandments of God...not because I think it will save me, but because I love Him...and it is THIS! love of God! that God loves and accepts from his own...as His own...for all eternity...it is THIS! faith in Him that God so loves and accepts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna

In Christ love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

...well now it seems as though you have deleted your reply...maybe my response was not so "Un-Christian like" after all.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 08-14-2010 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:19 PM
Status: "Attacks in self-defense only." (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Salt Lake City
13,902 posts, read 9,561,011 times
Reputation: 4595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...You say my response is UN - CHRISTIAN? Wow...just wow....so what is a Christian to you katzpur?
As I have said many, many times in the past, I believe a Christian to be a person who looks to Jesus Christ for salvation, who worships Him as the Only Begotten Son of the living God, and who seeks to do His will in all things. The word "Christian" is never actually defined in the Bible. The closest thing we can find is Christ's own words to His disciples when He told them how men would be able to recognize them as His followers. He said it would be through their love they showed to one another.

Quote:
...well now it seems as though you have deleted your reply...maybe my response was not so "Un-Christian like" after all.
The fact that I deleted my reply has nothing to do whether your post was "Christian" or "un-Christian." I recognized that my own post was not particularly Christian in its tone. When I catch myself responding the way I did, I try immediately to do what I can to correct the situation, which in this case involved deleting my post. As for yours, I will say that if someone were to come to City-Data for the first time and were trying to determine, based on what Christ said about His followers, who does and who does not follow Him, your post would probably disqualify you.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
15,987 posts, read 8,306,319 times
Reputation: 15888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...You say my response is UN - CHRISTIAN? Wow...just wow....so what is a Christian to you katzpur?
...well now it seems as though you have deleted your reply...maybe my response was not so "Un-Christian like" after all.
Well, if being Christ-like means going around telling people that they are wicked, that they are Satan's child, that they are profane, that they tell lies from the pit of hell, that if they don't follow your checklist of commandments then they can't possible love God and he hates them, that you are pure and righteous while everyone around you is filthy and sinful... then sure - you are totally Christ-like.
So - God really doesn't care if you treat people with love and kindness? He really doesn't care if you are a good person? Only this little checklist matters? Keeps the Sabbath? Check. Doesn't covet? Check. Puts others down and is constantly talking about how good they are and how everyone else is wicked and evil? Hmm... doesn't matter. Well, I guess that clears up a lot of things for me.
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:32 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
733 posts, read 276,369 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU! You do not love God if you do not keep His commandments...I don't care what you say...or how sweet you are...or how nice you are...or how kind you are...or how smart you are...or how logical you are...or however or whatever you "seem" to be...it is nothing more than lip service. If you do not keep God's commandments, you are not a child of God...you are not my brother...nor my sister...you are an unrepentant sinner, a child of the devil...
----------------I will wait for your proof Robert...with Scripture.
Verna,
After your harsh judgment of me as an unrepentant sinner and a child of the devil, you asked for proof that the early church was meeting on the first day of the week.
"Upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:8.)
"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come"
ICor 16: 2.
In the Bible margin, the reference about breaking bread on the first day of the week, other references are made of I Cor 10:16 "The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" and Rev. 1:10 (John says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" [calling the first day of the week the Lord's day,rather than the Sabbath.] The calling of Sunday as being the Lord's day has continued right up to our time.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,864,080 times
Reputation: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Verna,
I do not bellieve we are required to keep the seventh day of the week Holy, since after the Lord's resurrection the early church honored the first day of the week in honor of His rising from the dead.
Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Prove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Oh Bob! You can't take away the Sabbath from Verna! That's her litmus test to see who she thinks is a "true" Christian!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments...and He knows who doesn't by who does not.

A true Christian is one who loves God with all of their heart...all of their mind...and with all of their strength...above anyone...anything...and everything else in their entire life. If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU! You do not love God if you do not keep His commandments...I don't care what you say...or how sweet you are...or how nice you are...or how kind you are...or how smart you are...or how logical you are...or however or whatever you "seem" to be...it is nothing more than lip service. If you do not keep God's commandments, you are not a child of God...you are not my brother...nor my sister...you are an unrepentant sinner, a child of the devil...Jesus is not your Elder Brother, you are not a joint heir with Him of all that God has in store for those who DO! LOVE! HIM!...BEYOND LIP SERVICE!...you are not considered a saint of God...you are not considered a child of God...if you transgress the law of God, you live in sin...for sin is the transgression of the law, the law is the Ten Commandments of God...written upon two tablets of stone...and there is a fourth one!...He...GOD!!!...explicitly commands us to, "Remember!....[do not forget!]...Remember!...[what you've been taught from the beginning!]...Remember!...[never, ever forget!]...but always Remember, to Keep the Sabbath holy unto the LORD.

I love you all...whoever reads this...and to those of you (you know who you are)...who I have become close to...this does not mean I do not love you...this shows you how deep my love for you truly is...I am willing to suffer the loss that I would experience, that none of you would ever want to speak to me again! I will always love you anyway, even if you never speak to me again...but it is time...and I've had about all I can take of double-mindedness....saying one thing...but living another...the truth is the truth...and God is very clear about those He considers in love with Him...and it has nothing to do with what you say with your lips...but has everything to do with how you live your life...and it has nothing to do with anything except...How much do you love God? How much do you trust God? How much do you really believe in His word?...and are you going to show Him how much you love Him by the standard He has given you?...or by the standard that man has taught you...? Read the Scriptures for God's sake!...open up your blind eyes and let down your filthy pride and read the Bible...diligently seek Him!

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15.

John 14:
21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."

"And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it." 2 John 1:6.

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name." Psalm 91:14.

"The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy." Psalm 145:20.


Truly in Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna



I will wait for your proof Robert...with Scripture.
God bless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I have repented of my sins...and have been born again...converted...transformed...and daily! I pick up my cross and follow Him...daily! I am faced with choices to make between right and wrong!...daily I go through trials and tests!...and daily I run to Jesus...constantly I run to Jesus...and it is His Spirit within me that gives me the power to overome any and every obstacle that comes my way!...He always gives me a way out!!...and I take it!!!

I have cast the beam out of mine own eye...I live what I am teaching...I cannot be accused of being a hypocrite! I have reformed myself...that I may help to reform my brother...or my sister...that I may qualify to do so. God knows me...He knows I live what I teach...I would never in a thousand years sit here and teach others to do what I do not live myself first! God forbid!......I would never, ever do that!

It is not judging...it is reproving.

What I am learning here though...(Praise God! for still! learning!)...is, it is not every one that is fit to be reproved...this has been the hardest lesson to learn...but I'm getting it!....Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...IOW...don't preach it to the wicked and profane...(not that Christ himself preached to the publicans and the sinners), but not to the obstinate, who, after preaching the gospel to them...they blasphemed it and persecuted the preachers of it!...I shouldn't spend so much time doing so...for it is lost labor...

..."Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.' Acts 13:41.

Not my judgement..God's..I happen to believe it though, and live by it......

..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.

This is quite a statement katzpur....seeing that you do not believe that the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is even! important enough for you to keep it!!!!!!!

...sincerity...? katzpur...?....sincerity about not keeping the Sabbath holy...? That is sincerely not believing in God's word!

I do not sin willfully. IF I DID, AND WERE HERE TEACHING YOU TO DO OTHERWISE, I WOULD DIE SEPARATED FROM GOD FOREVER FOR LYING! I would never! do that! I keep the commandments of God...not because I think it will save me, but because I love Him...and it is THIS! love of God! that God loves and accepts from his own...as His own...for all eternity...it is THIS! faith in Him that God so loves and accepts!

In Christ love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Verna,
After your harsh judgment of me as an unrepentant sinner and a child of the devil, you asked for proof that the early church was meeting on the first day of the week.
"Upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:8.)
"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come"
ICor 16: 2.
In the Bible margin, the reference about breaking bread on the first day of the week, other references are made of I Cor 10:16 "The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" and Rev. 1:10 (John says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" [calling the first day of the week the Lord's day,rather than the Sabbath.] The calling of Sunday as being the Lord's day has continued right up to our time.
Alright Bob. Before I break down your response here in answering you, I would first like to say that it isn't judgement I am passing onto you. I am reproving you...admonishing you...counseling...cautioning...warning you...giving everything I have within me to point out...to warn you and remind you of the most precious, eternal things of God...His stated principles and standards for us to follow and to live by, to ensure that we do, in-deed, reside and abide with Him forever...and not only you, but everyone who may read these letters...I know for a fact that you and many others here want nothing more than to abide with the LORD forever...right...? I know it is right..and I want this more than anything in the world for you and them as well...and it isn't going to make me friends for the most part...most assuredly...but I am not here to make friends...although, I would prefer that...but as you well know...that's not going to happen, and I accept it.

As I pray for you and them, I cry. I pour my heart out to God that He lead me and show me and speak through me only what He wants to be said..not what I want to say...but what He wants for you all to know...it's what I live for....you....you and many others who I do not even know, I live for. There is nothing more important to me than for you and everyone I know to come to the knowledge of the truth...God's truth, not my own. He's holding me accountable for you...that if I warn you, then your blood, if you reject His truth, is not upon my hands when I stand before Him...but if I warn you, and you come unto Him in Spirit and in truth, then a greater reward will I receive from Him in heaven for my service unto Him. Nothing...and I repeat, nothing, is more important to me than the state of your souls...because this is the most important thing to God...the state of your soul...before you die.

I realize that the way I come across sounds harsh to you...but nothing I've said is not Scriptural...nothing. It's God speaking Bob, those are all His words...not my own. This isn't personal...I do love you...more than you realize...God knows I do. And it is because He does know my heart for you, and others like you, that He has called upon me to serve Him...I am responsible for every ear and heart He has placed in my life...and it isn't only you all here on CD...it is everyone I come into contact with...everyone.

Now...let's begin...shall we?

Here is what you said to Jason...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Jason,......my main purpose is to seek the will of God and uphold anything that is in keeping with His will (as expressed in scriptures) and respectfully but firmly to oppose anything that is clearly not in keeping with the scriptures.
Your characterization of God having a "stupid amount of contradicting nature" does not agree with the scriptures which say He is altogether Holy. Scriptures say that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever,....My personal goal in this thread is to beg the Holy Spirit to guide us in seeking God's will to discern what is according to God and what is of man...."
...here's what you said to katzpur...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Katzpur,....."My personal goal in this thread is to beg the Holy Spirit to guide us in seeking God's will to discern what is according to God and what is of man."
...and to Dasular...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Dasular,
I believe we have to be careful when we say that Jesus saves us from all "future sins.".....If we commit a premeditated, willful sin, purposely doing something we KNOW is wrong, we have no such assurance. "If we sin wilfully, after that we have received the knowledge of the truth [which comes only from the Holy Spirit] there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" Heb 10:26.
...then Jason again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Jason,....I believe God is a gentleman and does not push Himself on anyone. He gives each of us the free choice of whether to reject the words of Christ, or to believe Him.......He makes it possible for everyone who "hungers and thirsts after righteousness" to receive the promise of our Saviour that "He SHALL be filled.....the choice is up to you.
...and Jason again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Jason,....I believe in a God who is perfectly righteous, which means he is perfectly just in his judgments. Since you have chosen not to believe in Him or to live by His standards, ...."


...but this one was the clincher for me Bob, when you responded to katzpur...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Katzpur,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
......."For some time, I felt there may be some contradiction between the passage in Ephesians 2 where we are told "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast," and the clear admonition of our Saviour in John 15 that, "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." I knew that scripture rightly understood does not contradict other scripture.
Then I considered what Jesus said in Luke 17:10, "When ye shall have done all things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which was our dutyt to do." It became clear to me that it is humanly impossible to keep the commandments in our natural power. We have to be given the gift of the Holy Ghost (which Peter said God gives to them that obey Him) to be able to keep His commandments. Since it is not our efforts that keep the commandments, but the Holy Spirit working through us, then we have nothing of which we can boast. Incidentally, after the statement of Eph.2:9 about us having no works of which we can boast, the immedioate next verse says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." So it is His Spirit that makes it possible for us to do the good works which we are commanded to do.


So, my first question to you is this...

When you stated to Jason that, "My personal goal in this thread is to beg the Holy Spirit to guide us in seeking God's will to discern what is according to God and what is of man"

...do you not believe that it is possible that God, through His Holy Spirit, IS! in fact answering your prayer...?...that He is in fact attempting to guide you to know His will? and through maybe...ummmm...me? perhaps?...He is trying to show you His truth...? Could it be possible that God is answering both of our prayers...?...yours being Him to guide you and to give you discernment in determining what His will is for you...and not man's?...and mine being for Him to bless me with His truth, and to take His truth, in His love...in guiding others who seek Him unto Him in His truth and not man's?...could this be...?

...and when you responded to katzpur and said..."I knew that scripture rightly understood does not contradict other scripture."

...do you truly mean that?...do you honestly, with all of your heart, believe that God's Word cannot contradict Himself...? If you do truly believe this...then please explain to me how you justify not keeping the Sabbath holy? Robert, you do know...and I know you know, that I could type the entire Bible from cover to cover that proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when God, and His Son Jesus told us...commanded us!...to keep His Commandments if we love Him...He meant exactly that!...the commandments has a fourth commandment...and it specifically states we are to, "Remember the Sabbath...and to keep it holy...as a perpetual<<<>>>EVERLASTING!...Covenant between Him and us who do...?"...Please...do comment on this...if His Word really does not contradict Himself...explain to me, how? if God, (as you stated to Jason) is the same yesterday, today and forever...and He changeth NOT!...how it is that He changed His mind concerning keeping the Sabbath holy?...and please prove this by Scripture...I am confident that you cannot prove it in any way, shape or form in context...comparing line upon line...line upon line...precept upon precept...comparing the spiritual things with the spiritual things according to God's Word. Remember...you and I both agree that His Word does NOT contradict Himself...and this is how we uncover the mysteries and the truths according to God...and no other way can we know His truth....if it doesn't pass the "comparative test" it is obviously in error....right..? Right.

Robert...when you so correctly stated this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
I knew that scripture rightly understood does not contradict other scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Then I considered what Jesus said in Luke 17:10, "When ye shall have done all things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which was our dutyt to do." It became clear to me that it is humanly impossible to keep the commandments in our natural power. We have to be given the gift of the Holy Ghost (which Peter said God gives to them that obey Him) to be able to keep His commandments. Since it is not our efforts that keep the commandments, but the Holy Spirit working through us, then we have nothing of which we can boast. Incidentally, after the statement of Eph.2:9 about us having no works of which we can boast, the immedioate next verse says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." So it is His Spirit that makes it possible for us to do the good works which we are commanded to do.


...I read it and said to self..."This is absolutely the truth of God's Word!" So...this clearly shows you are being given a truth...God is knocking Robert...on your heart...but then you reject it any further when He speaks...and Jesus speaks...and Paul teaches...and John admonishes over and over again...warning after warning...that IF! we love Him...keep His commandments...ALL! of them!...not nine..TEN!...and they teach and admonish and warn that sin is the transgression of the law...if you transgress any part of the law...you live in sin...Robert!...God does not abide with..nor does He love a willfull sinner...HE SAID SO!...so He doesn't really mean it...?..How!...for the love of God, do you justify not adhering to His whole...complete word...?

...and please...I ask you with all of my heart...don't just give me this piddly-widdly answer with no proof in Scripture...I want proof..comparing line upon line...precept upon precept....not one verse here and there kind of thing... I want you to compare His word...rightly divide His word of truth...line upon line...precept upon precept...comparing spiritual things with spiritual things...answer me in this way...please.

...and finally...in answer to the verses you gave in an attempt to justify God changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, because they (the followers of Christ) "gathered to pray and break bread together on Sunday"...Let's study these in context...comparing line upon line...precept upon precept...comparing spiritual things with spiritual things...shall we?...

You quoted Scripture:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
"Upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:8.)


On the Lord's day. The day of the Lord's Resurrection, the first day of the week.

In the earlier apostolic writings the day was called the first day of the week (Acts 20:7 ;1Co 16:2), but by the close of the century it began to be called the Lord's day, as here. Epistles of Barnabas, Ignatius and Dionysius, written near this time, and the name is commonly known as this from this time onward, and is confined to Sunday. It is not confounded with the Sabbath day of many centuries. See Dr. Wm. Smith's Unabridged Dictionary of the Bible, article Lord's Day.

The "Christian sabbath" aka "The Lord's Day" aka "Sunday" is not to be confused with the "Seventh Day Sabbath"...two separate days altogether. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath...Saturday. Sunday was consecrated "the Lord's Day" by those who were simply honoring the day Jesus was resurrected from the grave..in honor of Him...as they practiced every Sunday...but never did this day interfere with their keeping and observing the seventh day Sabbath...never did it.

In the early times it was the custom to receive the Lord's supper every Lord's day, thus celebrating the memorial of Christ's death....and this is very important to note...THEY MET IN EACH OTHER'S homes...or in a small lighted room somewhere that was readily available to them...not in a Synagogue.

yet that was not enough; they must come together to worship God in concert, and so keep up their communion with one another, by mutual countenance and assistance, and testify their spiritual communion with all good Christians.

They came together upon the first day of the week, which they called the Lord's day (Rev. 1:10), the "Christian sabbath", celebrated to the honor of Christ and the Holy Spirit, in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ, and the pouring out of the Spirit, both on the first day of the week.

[[[NOTE: Paul was "...ready to depart on the morrow..." Paul, being a Sabbath keeper, would not plan a long journey (as he was planning for the morrow) on a Sabbath Day...they had a certain distance they were allowed to travel on a Sabbath Day (Saturday) , which was a mile. Only a mile. Not an extensive, long journey, which is the type of journey Paul was "planning for the morrow." Acts 1:12 states, " Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away."

***A sabbath day's journey. The traditions of the elders defined the distance that might be traveled on the Sabbath. It was a little less than a mile. Bethany is nearly two miles, but Luke here is stating the distance of the Mount of Olives from the city.

***Acts 1:12 A Sabbath - day's journey - The Jews generally fix this to two thousand cubits, which is not a mile.

Robert, I "NOTED" the above followed with the two [***] explanations to show you that this should be much proof to you that when Luke was writing the book of Acts, he was letting us know that they did indeed still! keep the Sabbath Day...SATURDAY! holy! ]]]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
ICor 16: 2.
Paul was telling them to lay aside an offering on Sunday, from their pay they recieved on the previous Friday, and save it throughout the week...(a week beforehand), so that they would not be gathering money on a Sabbath day, Saturday (the day following their payday (Friday). As it was not lawful for them to gather their offerings on the Sabbath...Saturday.

That implies that the money was to be placed in the treasury. Otherwise, it would have to be collected...and Paul did not want a collection to be taken up on the Sabbath, when he would be back to preach to them in the Synagogue....

"...that there be no gatherings when I come - that they may not then have to be made, when your and my time ought to be employed in more directly spiritual things."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
In the Bible margin, the reference about breaking bread on the first day of the week, other references are made of I Cor 10:16 "The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" and Rev. 1:10 (John says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" [calling the first day of the week the Lord's day,rather than the Sabbath.] The calling of Sunday as being the Lord's day has continued right up to our time


Yes...people do still call Sunday the "Lord's Day" in honor of His resurrection...the receiving of the Holy Spirit...the birth of the church...However...!...Saturday is!...was!...and forever shall be! the Sabbath...the Day God holds as His fourth commandment, for us to always remember! to keep as a sign of His Perptual Covenant with those who do keep it holy.

Please continue in this precious study with me Robert...I am sincere in my efforts to teach God's truth to all who will listen.

I do love you...and I care very much for you.

In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 08-15-2010 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,864,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments...and He knows who doesn't by who does not.

A true Christian is one who loves God with all of their heart...all of their mind...and with all of their strength...above anyone...anything...and everything else in their entire life. If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU! You do not love God if you do not keep His commandments...I don't care what you say...or how sweet you are...or how nice you are...or how kind you are...or how smart you are...or how logical you are...or however or whatever you "seem" to be...it is nothing more than lip service. If you do not keep God's commandments, you are not a child of God...you are not my brother...nor my sister...you are an unrepentant sinner, a child of the devil...Jesus is not your Elder Brother, you are not a joint heir with Him of all that God has in store for those who DO! LOVE! HIM!...BEYOND LIP SERVICE!...you are not considered a saint of God...you are not considered a child of God...if you transgress the law of God, you live in sin...for sin is the transgression of the law, the law is the Ten Commandments of God...written upon two tablets of stone...and there is a fourth one!...He...GOD!!!...explicitly commands us to, "Remember!....[do not forget!]...Remember!...[what you've been taught from the beginning!]...Remember!...[never, ever forget!]...but always Remember, to Keep the Sabbath holy unto the LORD.

I love you all...whoever reads this...and to those of you (you know who you are)...who I have become close to...this does not mean I do not love you...this shows you how deep my love for you truly is...I am willing to suffer the loss that I would experience, that none of you would ever want to speak to me again! I will always love you anyway, even if you never speak to me again...but it is time...and I've had about all I can take of double-mindedness....saying one thing...but living another...the truth is the truth...and God is very clear about those He considers in love with Him...and it has nothing to do with what you say with your lips...but has everything to do with how you live your life...and it has nothing to do with anything except...How much do you love God? How much do you trust God? How much do you really believe in His word?...and are you going to show Him how much you love Him by the standard He has given you?...or by the standard that man has taught you...? Read the Scriptures for God's sake!...open up your blind eyes and let down your filthy pride and read the Bible...diligently seek Him!

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15.

John 14:
21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."

"And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it." 2 John 1:6.

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name." Psalm 91:14.

"The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy." Psalm 145:20.


Truly in Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna



I will wait for your proof Robert...with Scripture.




God bless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Well, Verna. Since I'm not Christian, I guess I am a child of the devil. Since it seems that you are either a Christian who keeps all 10 commandments or you are a child of the devil. But, since I don't believe in the devil - this means very little to me.
In my life - how nice you are, how kind you are, how caring you are, how understanding you are, how funny you are, how sympathetic you are, how dependable you are, how supportive you are - these are the things that matter to me. In fact, these are the things that are most important to me. And these are the things that I strive to be each and every day. I guess that just makes me a child of the devil!
I think there should have been a commandment about being a nice, good, understanding person. That would have been a good commandment, in my opinion.
And to answer the question that you ask every single person who says they are a Christian - no, I do not keep the sabbath.
You're funny.
Have a nice day!
Let's see, what did Jesus say...

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in."

"You blind men..."

"...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"

"...full of extortion and rapacity."

"...you appear righteous to men but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

"You serpents, you brood of vipers..."

"Blind guides..."

"...how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?"


Do you think that Jesus did not have the fruit of the Spirit?
Compared to Jesus, I have been quite gentle.


Matthew 23:17,19
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Luke 11:40
"Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"

Luke 24:25
"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:..."


In Christ's love...prayerfully in His tuth,
Verna.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:54 PM
 
2,250 posts, read 2,572,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Verna,
I do not bellieve we are required to keep the seventh day of the week Holy, since after the Lord's resurrection the early church honored the first day of the week in honor of His rising from the dead.
Bob
Not only are we to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord, but everyday of the week. Under the law, God gave certain commandments to keep it holy, such as not working; the Jews were still in the flesh. However, under grace, we enter into Jesus' rest of holiness continually -- everyday of the week for the rest of our lives. This is what God always wanted from mankind.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,864,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Not only are we to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord, but everyday of the week. Under the law, God gave certain commandments to keep it holy, such as not working; the Jews were still in the flesh. However, under grace, we enter into Jesus' rest of holiness continually -- everyday of the week for the rest of our lives. This is what God always wanted from mankind.
Prove it. With Scripture.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
200 posts, read 129,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Well not in this thread, but it is musing to watch the ET'ers and UR'ers duke it out week after week, threads closed, etc.
AN, what in the world would you do without us ? You'd be bored out of your skull.

BTW, it's not "squabbling like the Hatfields and McCoys"...it's "FEUDIN' like the Hatfields and McCoys." Waylon would've been so disappointed in you...
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