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Old 08-11-2010, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
75 posts, read 52,136 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkin-saw
This kind of difference and/or division started as early as sin began.... Inside the garden of Eden there was one river. Outside Eden the river divided into 4 different rivers...we note that once again in Revelation 22:1-2...it is ONE RIVER again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Sorry, if that was directed to me, I'm afraid you lost me.
Katz...In agreeing with your post about different churches, I illustrated by ONE River in Eden becoming 4 rivers outside of Eden.
Eden - 1 river = One Bible, One source of truth
Outside Eden - 4 rivers = 4 different ways of interpreting that same word
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur;Post #40
'To a Catholic, the word "salvation" may mean one thing; to a Baptist, it may mean something different; to a Latter-day Saint, it may mean something different still. We all use the same words, but our various traditions interpret them differently.'

Peace...Rkin
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
13,624 posts, read 8,774,762 times
Reputation: 4415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkin-saw View Post
Katz...In agreeing with your post about different churches, I illustrated by ONE River in Eden becoming 4 rivers outside of Eden.
Eden - 1 river = One Bible, One source of truth
Outside Eden - 4 rivers = 4 different ways of interpreting that same word
Peace...Rkin
Ah... gotcha!
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:55 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
636 posts, read 215,173 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Since God addressed each church of the seven churches in Revelation and they being of the seven candlesticks as seven Spirits ministering in these seven churches and yet of the one stand as being of the One church, One Spirit, and One Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of that Church, I would have to say that there will be denomenations then and not just pertaining to the location, but where they are at spiritually in their walk with Jesus.
Enow, I believe those 7 churches are representatives of the mess we have with thousands of denominations in our day. Of the 7 churches in Asia at that time, the angel of the church at Smyrrna was told, "Be thou faithful unto death and I will give thee a crown of life;" and the angel of the church at Philadelphia was told, "I know thy works; behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it; for thou hast a little strength,, and hast kept my word, and has not denied my name."
All of the other 5 had serious charges against them, such as having left their first love [Ephesians], holding false doctrines [Pergamos], suffering Jezebel [who called herself a prophetess] to seduce God's servants to commit fornication [Thyatira]. Also the one at Sardis was told, "I know thy works that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead;" and the one at Laodicea, "because thou are neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth ---thou art wrectched and niserable, and poor, and blind, and naked." The angel of the church at ""ephesis was told, "I will come unto thee quicxkly and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
If the early churches had fallen into such disarray before the death of the Apostle John, what would God have to say to the disunity of the churches in our day? I believe He would tell us to repent quickly and vow to do His will at all times, and to beg the Holy Spirit to guide us in discerning which doctrines are of man and which are of God. (See John 7:17)

Last edited by Robert M Prince; 08-12-2010 at 06:00 AM.. Reason: typo errors
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:30 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
636 posts, read 215,173 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
Just because I call an apple and orange doesn't make it true. The bible itself is filled, to the brim, with contradictory passages, stories, and laws. Just because you can find a verse in the bible saying that God claims he is absolutely holy does not make it so. I can find dozens and dozens of verses showing horrible atrocities. You find a verse saying "God is good" and I'll find one that says "The LORD commanded the slaughter of entire populations of people". You can not read the entire bible and then say there isn't anything in there that doesn't make sense or contradicts itself.

Jason, I believe there are only 2 logical conclusions we can make about Jesus. Either He was telling the truth, that He is the Son of God and no man can come unto the Father except through Him; or He was a complete egotistical liar.
I believe God is a gentleman and does not push Himself on anyone. He gives each of us the free choice of whether to reject the words of Christ, or to believe Him. 2 Peter 3:9 says about God, that He "is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance." I believe that through his omniscient foreknowledge, He knows the hearts of everyone on the face of the earth and through his omnipotence He makes it possible for everyone who "hungers and thirsts after righteousness" to receive the promise of our Saviour that "He SHALL be filled."
I personally believe the evidence is overwhelming that He was telling the truth about Himself, especially in that he fulfilled to the letter numerous prophesies by the Old Testament prophets that were written hundreds of years before His birth.
Jason, the chice is up to you.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:48 PM
 
2,192 posts, read 2,520,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Jason, I believe there are only 2 logical conclusions we can make about Jesus. Either He was telling the truth, that He is the Son of God and no man can come unto the Father except through Him; or He was a complete egotistical liar.
I believe God is a gentleman and does not push Himself on anyone. He gives each of us the free choice of whether to reject the words of Christ, or to believe Him. 2 Peter 3:9 says about God, that He "is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance." I believe that through his omniscient foreknowledge, He knows the hearts of everyone on the face of the earth and through his omnipotence He makes it possible for everyone who "hungers and thirsts after righteousness" to receive the promise of our Saviour that "He SHALL be filled."
I personally believe the evidence is overwhelming that He was telling the truth about Himself, especially in that he fulfilled to the letter numerous prophesies by the Old Testament prophets that were written hundreds of years before His birth.
Jason, the chice is up to you.
I beg to differ. Through out various old testament passages God does force himself on others and then threatens them via eternal torment in hell if people worship false idols. He seems to have some pretty serious jealousy issues when it comes to people not worshipping him. I'd also say him casually wiping out entire populations of people doesn't really tend to mesh well with the theory of him being all loving and compassionate. Threatening non believers with burning in the lake of fire for all eternity really doesn't do much to help his cause. It pretty much sends this message: WORSHIP ME OR I WILL BURN YOUR BODY FOREVER IN EVERLASTING PAIN! That doesn't sound forgiving, understanding, caring, compassionate, loving, or any of the other new testament attributes that God supposedly has.

The old testament and new testament are in direct contradiction of one another. Anyone who reads the entire bible, WITHOUT BIAS, will logically come to that conclusion. Its when religion enters the picture and people are instructed to "Let go and let God" or "Have faith" that the ignorance blanket sets itself up. Its the only way people can actually believe in what they profess. As far as the prophecies go, you've got to be kidding me. There are more prophecies that never worked out, to which Christians will merely state that they were interpretted wrong or have yet to come to fruition. Please! All I ever hear from Christians is excuses for their version of "God".

As far as your two choices C.S. Lewis catch all, I don't agree. The Jesus character could very well be entirely made up. He also could have just been a prophet, like any other, who just happened to become more famous as a direct result of conquering nations forcing their religious ideals on others. After all, history is written by the victor. Geographical selection and what not. Hence why people in the middle east are Islamic and have their prophet Mohammad. There is absolutely no difference. They believe you are wrong, you believe they are wrong. Its only logical that someone is wrong. Why them?

What I find humorous is that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all have the same God. As do all the tens of thousands of variations of those religions. Yet each different branch thinks they have the only key to the door. Its simply ignorant. Why is it so difficult for people to grasp that their religions were modified by men for control and power? Just maybe each religion is some variance of the truth. Instead, people use religion for all the wrong intended purposes such as judgement, war, torture, finger pointing, and pridefully thumbing their noses believing others will burn in hell. Meanwhile all the good parts of religion are brushed under the rug, so to speak.

I've personally made my choice. I choose to believe in something different that hasn't been touched by men. I choose to understand things as I see them and not how others tell me to. I have carefully read and studied several religions and historical writings to come to the place I currently am with my beliefs. Only by deeply questioning ones own ideas and upbringing can we truly set ourselves free from religious bias. It feels great not having this label over my head with things I don't agree with.
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:22 PM
 
9,080 posts, read 4,453,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
What I find humorous is that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all have the same God..
What I find humorous is that you believe that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have the same God...
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:31 PM
 
2,192 posts, read 2,520,088 times
Reputation: 2206
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
What I find humorous is that you believe that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have the same God...
Its the same God and history shows it. You denying it is akin to saying the earth is only a few thousand years old or that Rome never existed then sticking your tongue out at me. Try reading some actual history instead of the bible. After all, both were written entirely by man, so you have nothing to lose.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
1,370 posts, read 1,309,150 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
What I find humorous is that you believe that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have the same God...
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:23 PM
 
2,192 posts, read 2,520,088 times
Reputation: 2206
You can laugh at history and other religions all you want but you're only deceiving yourself.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
13,624 posts, read 8,774,762 times
Reputation: 4415
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
What I find humorous is that you believe that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have the same God...
What I find humorous is that you find Jason's statement humorous. The God he is referring to is known in theological circles as "the Abrahamic God." That's common knowledge among educated Christians.
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