Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince I believe that many of the teachings in Mormonism are not in sync with the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
There are many who would agree with you, Bob. My response to you and to them is that we believe all of our teachings are in sync with the Bible. I say that not to start a debate on the subject, but to illustrate the following: We often disagree with one another because we do not fully understand each other. Some of our misunderstandings can be attributed to differences in the language we use. To a Catholic, the word "salvation" may mean one thing; to a Baptist, it may mean something different; to a Latter-day Saint, it may mean something different still. We all use the same words, but our various traditions interpret them differently. For instance, I had a discussion on another forum with an individual about the words "salvation," "justification," "sanctification," and "exaltation." They are all closely related, and yet the differences between them can be quite significant, particularly when we are trying to carry on an inter-denominational dialogue. Another problem is that we sometimes think we understand someone else's position but really don't. We have a very superficial knowledge of other people's beliefs (and it may or may not have been gleaned from a legitimate source), but we don't have all of the background in the faith that an actual adherent has. Consequently, we draw conclusions based on incomplete data. Does this make sense?
This kind of difference and/or division started as early as sin began.... Inside the garden of Eden there was one river. Outside Eden the river divided into 4 different rivers...we note that once again in Revelation 22:1-2...it is ONE RIVER again!
This kind of difference and/or division started as early as sin began.... Inside the garden of Eden there was one river. Outside Eden the river divided into 4 different rivers...we note that once again in Revelation 22:1-2...it is ONE RIVER again!
Sorry, if that was directed to me, I'm afraid you lost me.
Yes most denominations will lead you to being saved, but in many christian faiths it will be "Saved for Dummies" One has to explore the "conditions to be saved" I haven't found a scripture that says accepting Christ as you personal savior saves you ,but it's a reasonable essential step. Jesus died for all sin past present and future (no wonder he was butchered considering the slim balls that kick sin up a notch in their pathetic lives). There probably isn't ANYTHING WE CAN DO to save us but
God in His word said without Jesus you are NOT a child of God and that doesn't sound like a good thing. Aspostolics and I believe Pentecostals have a formula for salvation. ACTS 2:38-39 covers Repentance,baptism (specifically in Jesus name "Jesus Christ" to be exact. In Matt 28:19 Jesus said go out baptiszing in the triune titles so in 325 ad Nicea dropped the Jesus Name believing Jesus meant the three (that are wonderful manifestations of our one God) ,but the POWER is in
NAME antd the good ol' boys missed the NAME (JESUS) that Jesus was implying. Ah religion!!!! ya gotta love it. Most denominations believe in Christ and some toss in mediators they love and honor. It's in opposition to Jesus ,but He will just throw up his hands and say you intentions to love my mom and saints and pray to them was in your heeart so punch in.
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince I believe that many of the teachings in Mormonism are not in sync with the Bible.
This kind of difference and/or division started as early as sin began.... Inside the garden of Eden there was one river. Outside Eden the river divided into 4 different rivers...we note that once again in Revelation 22:1-2...it is ONE RIVER again!
Or perhaps they are confused by the stupid amount of contradicting nature of God in the OT and NT. God being intolerant of homosexuals on one hand and then being all loving/forgiving in another. Then we have the problem of God actually making gay people to begin with since the vast majority of them say it isn't a choice.
Thats part of the problem. The other part is that humans have had their grubby mitts in every part of every religion on the face of the earth including each religion's holy books from the bible to the qur'an. Under those circumstances, and in reality, it becomes clear that religion is simply about control and money. Its actually identical to politics in that aspect.
Jason, Jesus said that his meat was to do the will of His Father in heaven. In this thread my main purpose is to seek the will of God and uphold anything that is in keeping with His will (as expressed in scriptures) and respectfully but firmly to oppose anything that is clearly not in keeping with the scriptures.
Your characterization of God having a "stupid amount of contradicting nature" does not agree with the scriptures which say He is altogether Holy. Scriptures say that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, and He Himself said that, "When you have seen me you have seen the Father." Not only is homosexuality described as a sin in the Old Testament, but St Paul clearly describes it as being against nature in the first chapter of Romans. We all have sinful natures since the fall of Adam and Eve, and Jesus said He came not to condemn the world but to save the world, that it was condemned already. To say that God makes a person a homosexual is about equivalent to saying that he makes a person a murder or adulterer. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I have to agree with you when you say, "The other part is that humans have had their grubby mitts in every part of every religion on the face of the earth including each religion's holy books from the bible to the qur'an. Under those circumstances, and in reality, it becomes clear that religion is simply about control and money. Its actually identical to politics in that aspect."
My personal goal in this thread is to beg the Holy Spirit to guide us in seeking God's will to discern what is according to God and what is of man.
Just as in life, we have the free will to choose what we say, on these forums we have the choice of what we say, as long as we follow the general guidelines of the forums.
Last edited by Robert M Prince; 08-11-2010 at 06:55 AM..
Reason: typo
There are many who would agree with you, Bob. My response to you and to them is that we believe all of our teachings are in sync with the Bible. I say that not to start a debate on the subject, but to illustrate the following: We often disagree with one another because we do not fully understand each other. Some of our misunderstandings can be attributed to differences in the language we use. To a Catholic, the word "salvation" may mean one thing; to a Baptist, it may mean something different; to a Latter-day Saint, it may mean something different still. We all use the same words, but our various traditions interpret them differently. For instance, I had a discussion on another forum with an individual about the words "salvation," "justification," "sanctification," and "exaltation." They are all closely related, and yet the differences between them can be quite significant, particularly when we are trying to carry on an inter-denominational dialogue. Another problem is that we sometimes think we understand someone else's position but really don't. We have a very superficial knowledge of other people's beliefs (and it may or may not have been gleaned from a legitimate source), but we don't have all of the background in the faith that an actual adherent has. Consequently, we draw conclusions based on incomplete data. Does this make sense?
Katzpur, as I said to Jason, "My personal goal in this thread is to beg the Holy Spirit to guide us in seeking God's will to discern what is according to God and what is of man." Your posts have certainly been friendly in nature and I welcome you to continue in our seeking to discover the will of God.
Lately I've found myself becoming more and more convinced that "joining" a denomination is not the will of God. If you join a denomination, are you not thereby endorsing and agreeing to their particular set of doctrines and beliefs? Why not just attend that church, and forget about the "joining" part...
Bud, I am with you in not feeling able to affiliate with any denomination that teaches doctrines which I do not believe are in keeping with God's will. This is why I withdrew from the Baptist church about 50 years ago, after having been a member there for about 20 years. I believed that God did not approve of "once in grace, always in grace," since Jesus clearly says, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkin-saw
I believe that 'denominational divisions' are not part of the will of God when it comes to maturity of understanding salvation. Divisions in the church are evidence that 'unbelief' is in the midst. Same with a marriage. The home may appear to be 'ideal', but if there is accusing and faultfinding in the home, we should know that 'unity' at best, is only surface deep and it will be evident when times get hard. God has His way of helping us to 'grow up'. The Children of Israel, through Isaiah, Jeremian, Ezekiel, Daniel, and others God said He would scatter them. Just before calvary, Jesus told the disciples...
John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come,
that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own,
and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone,
because the Father is with me. KJV
Spiritual maturity comes when/as we are 'scattered' and we are given to search our own hearts to see what kind of demons live inside. Jesus told Peter 'get behind me Satan' ...Matt 16:23. But Peter did not understand these words till he was scattered. As much as we boast about our 'works', when we are scattered, the boasting leaves (I did not say we stop 'working' rather we stop boasting about our works.) Even as Jesus rested from His works of creating to do the will of the Father, so we rest from our earthly works of boasting and trying to earn salvation to REST by doing His works, His will, His way! Then, and not till then we will be 'ONE in CHRIST JESUS' our Lord and Saviour, and there will be 'no divisions among you'!
Peace...Rkin
Great remarks, Rkin. We all certainly have nothing we can boast of, since if we are doing God's will, it is the Holy Spirit that is accomplishing the work through us."
Dasular,
I believe we have to be careful when we say that Jesus saves uf from all "future sins."
Even after true repoentance, we certainly all make many mistakes on a daily basis, but if we confess our sins, "Jesus is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" I John 1:9.
If we commit a premeditated, willful sin, purposely doing something we KNOW is wrong, we have no such assurance. "If we sin wilfully, after that we have received the knowledge of the truth [which comes only from the Holy Spirit] there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" Heb 10:26.
Jesus told the woman who was to be stoned for adultery, "Neither do I condemn thee; go and sin no more" John 8th chapter. Also the man who was healed of his infirmity in John ch. 5 was told, "Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
Since God addressed each church of the seven churches in Revelation and they being of the seven candlesticks as seven Spirits ministering in these seven churches and yet of the one stand as being of the One church, One Spirit, and One Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of that Church, I would have to say that there will be denomenations then and not just pertaining to the location, but where they are at spiritually in their walk with Jesus.
Last edited by Enow; 08-11-2010 at 07:33 AM..
Reason: going further from OP
Your characterization of God having a "stupid amount of contradicting nature" does not agree with the scriptures which say He is altogether Holy. Scriptures say that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, and He Himself said that.
Just because I call an apple and orange doesn't make it true. The bible itself is filled, to the brim, with contradictory passages, stories, and laws. Just because you can find a verse in the bible saying that God claims he is absolutely holy does not make it so. I can find dozens and dozens of verses showing horrible atrocities. You find a verse saying "God is good" and I'll find one that says "The LORD commanded the slaughter of entire populations of people". You can not read the entire bible and then say there isn't anything in there that doesn't make sense or contradicts itself.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
