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Old 08-14-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,432,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Thinking you understand someone else's beliefs when you really don't almost always results in odd and inaccurate conclusions.
"It would be a tad bit arrogant for a Baptist to say that unless you're Baptist you aren't quailified to make that discernment."


Yes Katzpur ... somethings never change.
  • Claim that I can't understand LDS material because I don't read it with LDS approved glasses ...stupid me.
  • And yes I do recall quoting scripture of a "creed" spoken .... but you refused to believe it.
  • the core teaching of Chritianity is uncompromisable
    the Incarnation, Trinity, and Jesus' Resurrection
"Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen" ... Luther

Last edited by twin.spin; 08-14-2010 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,543 posts, read 1,306,087 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
THE COMMANDMENTS THAT WE ARE TO KEEP ARE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS...IF! WE LOVE HIM!...AND THE FOURTH ONE COMMANDS US TO REMEMBER! THE SABBATH DAY>>>TO KEEP IT HOLY UNTO GOD!....WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU ALL NOT UNDERSTAND...?!
Verna,
I do not bellieve we are required to keep the seventh day of the week Holy, since after the Lord's resurrection the early church honored the first day of the week in honor of His rising from the dead.
Bob
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,543 posts, read 1,306,087 times
Reputation: 184
Katzpur,
In a previous post I believe you said that you did not know of any Mormon doctrines that were contradicted in scripture. I know that polygamy is not practiced in the present day, but the 3rd chapter of I Timothy says a bishop (or a deacon) should be the husband of one wife. How did LDS doctrine reconcile the early practice of polygamy?
I have to admit that LDS doctrines on the necessity of repenting, keeping the commandments of Christ, and enduring to the end are more in line with scriptures than the statements of many denominations who claim that we are no longer required to do good works. I have had Mormon friends who are generally more conscientious that many who claim to have been saved at the time they accepted Christ as their personal Saviour.
Bob
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Old 08-14-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,627,883 times
Reputation: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Verna,
I do not bellieve we are required to keep the seventh day of the week Holy, since...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M. Prince
...after the Lord's resurrection the early church honored the first day of the week in honor of His rising from the dead.
Bob
Prove it.
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Old 08-14-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,085,109 times
Reputation: 22274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Verna,
I do not bellieve we are required to keep the seventh day of the week Holy, since after the Lord's resurrection the early church honored the first day of the week in honor of His rising from the dead.
Bob
Oh Bob! You can't take away the Sabbath from Verna! That's her litmus test to see who she thinks is a "true" Christian!
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,627,883 times
Reputation: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Oh Bob! You can't take away the Sabbath from Verna! That's her litmus test to see who she thinks is a "true" Christian!
God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments...and He knows who doesn't by who does not.

A true Christian is one who loves God with all of their heart...all of their mind...and with all of their strength...above anyone...anything...and everything else in their entire life. If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU! You do not love God if you do not keep His commandments...I don't care what you say...or how sweet you are...or how nice you are...or how kind you are...or how smart you are...or how logical you are...or however or whatever you "seem" to be...it is nothing more than lip service. If you do not keep God's commandments, you are not a child of God...you are not my brother...nor my sister...you are an unrepentant sinner, a child of the devil...Jesus is not your Elder Brother, you are not a joint heir with Him of all that God has in store for those who DO! LOVE! HIM!...BEYOND LIP SERVICE!...you are not considered a saint of God...you are not considered a child of God...if you transgress the law of God, you live in sin...for sin is the transgression of the law, the law is the Ten Commandments of God...written upon two tablets of stone...and there is a fourth one!...He...GOD!!!...explicitly commands us to, "Remember!....[do not forget!]...Remember!...[what you've been taught from the beginning!]...Remember!...[never, ever forget!]...but always Remember, to Keep the Sabbath holy unto the LORD.

I love you all...whoever reads this...and to those of you (you know who you are)...who I have become close to...this does not mean I do not love you...this shows you how deep my love for you truly is...I am willing to suffer the loss that I would experience, that none of you would ever want to speak to me again! I will always love you anyway, even if you never speak to me again...but it is time...and I've had about all I can take of double-mindedness....saying one thing...but living another...the truth is the truth...and God is very clear about those He considers in love with Him...and it has nothing to do with what you say with your lips...but has everything to do with how you live your life...and it has nothing to do with anything except...How much do you love God? How much do you trust God? How much do you really believe in His word?...and are you going to show Him how much you love Him by the standard He has given you?...or by the standard that man has taught you...? Read the Scriptures for God's sake!...open up your blind eyes and let down your filthy pride and read the Bible...diligently seek Him!

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15.

John 14:
21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."

"And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it." 2 John 1:6.

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name." Psalm 91:14.

"The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy." Psalm 145:20.


Truly in Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna



I will wait for your proof Robert...with Scripture.




God bless.
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
Reputation: 13062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments...and He knows who doesn't by who does not.

A true Christian is one who loves God with all of their heart...all of their mind...and with all of their strength...above anyone...anything...and everything else in their entire life. If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU!
Verna,

Matthew 7:1-5 states: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Do you not see that your statement to Bob (YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU!) makes you guilty of judging him? This commandment is as important as the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy. Is it not possible that Bob interprets the 4th commandment differently than you do, and that he is not lying at all? Most Christians believe that when Christ's Apostles began to gather together to worship and remember Him on the first day of the week instead of on the seventh, that it was in accordance to God's will. That's what I believe, and I can assure you that I do love God. Maybe I'm wrong in what I believe. Maybe most Christians are. Maybe you're right. Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, though, you definitely made one good point. God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments. Don't you think He is better able than you are to know the condition of our hearts? Don't you believe that sincerity counts for anything?

And one last thing... Are you without sin?
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
Reputation: 13062
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Claim that I can't understand LDS material because I don't read it with LDS approved glasses ...stupid me.
No, not stupid, just uninformed. Since you have used the phrase, "LDS approved glasses," perhaps you will be able to appreciate the following quote from Rex E. Lee, former President of Brigham Young University. He was explaining why it is so difficult for a non-believer to have a truly accurate understanding of Mormon doctrine. He made the following comparison:

"If I want to gain an understand of Chinese culture, I can best obtain it from someone who has not only made a thorough study of things Chinese, but even more importantly, sees the world through Chinese eyes."

You do not see the world through LDS eyes; I do. When I pointed out that you do not understand LDS doctrine anywhere near as well as you suppose you do, I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt. You have made a number of statements about LDS beliefs over the period of time I've been participating on City-Data that have been false or misleading. I could have accused you of lying. Instead, I assumed that you simply didn't fully understand the doctrine. You weren't seeing the complete picture, which is necessary in order to have a correct understanding of the doctrine. I have tried to clear up misunderstandings, but it has gotten me nowhere. You have continued to post the same false statements over and over again. What am I to conclude by this?

Quote:
And yes I do recall quoting scripture of a "creed" spoken .... but you refused to believe it.
I'm sorry but I honestly don't know what you're talking about. And if I refused to believe something in the scriptures, I cannot recall doing so. Perhaps I didn't refuse to do anything. Perhaps I merely overlooked something you thought I'd seen.

Quote:
the core teaching of Chritianity is uncompromisable -- the Incarnation, Trinity, and Jesus' Resurrection
I know what you're saying, but as I have pointed out, prior to 325 A.D. the "core teaching" of the Trinity was unknown in Christianity. I have asked you to provide any evidence that any of Christ's Apostles ever taught that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all a part of an indivisible substance or that "he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity." You have not done so. If such statements exist, surely you should be able to provide them.
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Old 08-14-2010, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
Reputation: 13062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
Katzpur,
In a previous post I believe you said that you did not know of any Mormon doctrines that were contradicted in scripture. I know that polygamy is not practiced in the present day, but the 3rd chapter of I Timothy says a bishop (or a deacon) should be the husband of one wife. How did LDS doctrine reconcile the early practice of polygamy?
I have to admit that LDS doctrines on the necessity of repenting, keeping the commandments of Christ, and enduring to the end are more in line with scriptures than the statements of many denominations who claim that we are no longer required to do good works. I have had Mormon friends who are generally more conscientious that many who claim to have been saved at the time they accepted Christ as their personal Saviour.
Bob
Bob, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to answer one of the more challenging questions we Latter-day Saints get from time to time. I will do my best to provide you with a straightforward answer, but if my post raises additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask them.

We believe that polygamy, or plural marriage, as we call it, is an “eternal principle” that is practiced only when God authorizes it for His own purposes. You pointed out the passage relating to monogamy in 1 Timothy 3. We believe that passage to be applicable both at the time it was written and today, but believe there are times and conditions when God has specifically said that a man should take several women as his wives.

You are no doubt aware that a number of the Old Testament prophets had many wives. Abraham is perhaps the best known of these, although I could name several others. I have heard people say that God just “turned a blind eye” to Abraham’s plural marriages, that while He did not actually condemn the practice, He definitely did not approve of it. That’s certainly not what I have come to expect of God. Had He really disapproved of Abraham’s multiple marriages, I think we can be certain He would have spoken up. But He didn’t! He never once condemned Abraham. As a matter of fact, I cannot think of a single person in the Old Testament God chose to bless more than He did Abraham. He blessed him specifically because he was obedient.

According to the Church’s official site, “In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle.” The practice was officially announced in 1852 (although a few plural marriages took place before that date) and was officially discontinued about 40 years later. But why would God have commanded Joseph to institute a practice that initially appears to contradict that which we read in 1 Timothy 3?

In the Book of Mormon, we read (the italics are mine), “Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Here the Lord is stressing (I don’t think that’s too strong a word) that monogamy should be the general rule and should be observed at all times except when He specifically commands His people for the purpose of “raising up seed” to Him. In other words, it appears that he commands the practice only at times when a righteous man’s progeny (children dedicated to honoring and serving the Lord) would not increase as quickly as the Lord wishes it to. We believe this to have been the case in the early days of Mormonism. When the Church was founded in 1830, there were just six members. It grew quickly, but the members were persecuted to a degree that the average American is oblivious to. Hypothetically speaking, if this new church was, in fact, the re-establishment of ancient Christianity as it has always claimed to be, it would have been critical that its numbers increase at least as quickly as possible, so that within even a couple of generations, the likelihood that it disappear altogether would be significantly reduced.

I would say that that’s it in a nutshell. I hope this answer has been helpful.
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,085,109 times
Reputation: 22274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God knows who loves Him by who keeps His commandments...and He knows who doesn't by who does not.

A true Christian is one who loves God with all of their heart...all of their mind...and with all of their strength...above anyone...anything...and everything else in their entire life. If you claim you love the Lord and keepeth not His commandments YOU ARE A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU! You do not love God if you do not keep His commandments...I don't care what you say...or how sweet you are...or how nice you are...or how kind you are...or how smart you are...or how logical you are...or however or whatever you "seem" to be...it is nothing more than lip service. If you do not keep God's commandments, you are not a child of God...you are not my brother...nor my sister...you are an unrepentant sinner, a child of the devil...Jesus is not your Elder Brother, you are not a joint heir with Him of all that God has in store for those who DO! LOVE! HIM!...BEYOND LIP SERVICE!...you are not considered a saint of God...you are not considered a child of God...if you transgress the law of God, you live in sin...for sin is the transgression of the law, the law is the Ten Commandments of God...written upon two tablets of stone...and there is a fourth one!...He...GOD!!!...explicitly commands us to, "Remember!....[do not forget!]...Remember!...[what you've been taught from the beginning!]...Remember!...[never, ever forget!]...but always Remember, to Keep the Sabbath holy unto the LORD.

I love you all...whoever reads this...and to those of you (you know who you are)...who I have become close to...this does not mean I do not love you...this shows you how deep my love for you truly is...I am willing to suffer the loss that I would experience, that none of you would ever want to speak to me again! I will always love you anyway, even if you never speak to me again...but it is time...and I've had about all I can take of double-mindedness....saying one thing...but living another...the truth is the truth...and God is very clear about those He considers in love with Him...and it has nothing to do with what you say with your lips...but has everything to do with how you live your life...and it has nothing to do with anything except...How much do you love God? How much do you trust God? How much do you really believe in His word?...and are you going to show Him how much you love Him by the standard He has given you?...or by the standard that man has taught you...? Read the Scriptures for God's sake!...open up your blind eyes and let down your filthy pride and read the Bible...diligently seek Him!

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15.

John 14:
21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."

"And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it." 2 John 1:6.

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name." Psalm 91:14.

"The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy." Psalm 145:20.


Truly in Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna



I will wait for your proof Robert...with Scripture.




God bless.
Well, Verna. Since I'm not Christian, I guess I am a child of the devil. Since it seems that you are either a Christian who keeps all 10 commandments or you are a child of the devil. But, since I don't believe in the devil - this means very little to me.
In my life - how nice you are, how kind you are, how caring you are, how understanding you are, how funny you are, how sympathetic you are, how dependable you are, how supportive you are - these are the things that matter to me. In fact, these are the things that are most important to me. And these are the things that I strive to be each and every day. I guess that just makes me a child of the devil!
I think there should have been a commandment about being a nice, good, understanding person. That would have been a good commandment, in my opinion.
And to answer the question that you ask every single person who says they are a Christian - no, I do not keep the sabbath.
You're funny.
Have a nice day!
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