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Tantl, there is no scripture in the Bible that tells you to hate your kids. The scripture that you posted is talking about loving God more than anyone else.
Let's try to simplify the scripture and then carefully analyze it.
"If . . one comes to me and does not hate his own . . . . children . . . he cannot be my disciple."
It gets worse:
"he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." -Jesus Christ
Lovely!
HOW ON EARTH could anyone want to worship anyone who would demand this?
Let's try to simplify the scripture and then carefully analyze it.
"If . . one comes to me and does not hate his own . . . . children . . . he cannot be my disciple."
It gets worse:
"he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." -Jesus Christ
Lovely!
HOW ON EARTH could anyone want to worship anyone who would demand this?
Tant, many of us study the languages, or go to teachers who study the languages, so that we can understand what the Scriptures intended, not what the translations, especially old-Emglish versions, say. One cannot always take what a translation says.
There have been such translations as the "breeches" one, the one that advises to commit adultery, some with words that no longer carry the same meaning, some that have obsolete words, etc. It is an old, old book!
I think there probably are times when shunning makes sense. For example if the daughter is a genuine threat to you or your community. By that I mean if every time you see her she steals from you, beats you, steals from the church, physically assaults its members, leaves illegal drugs lying around where small kids can grab them, etc. I'm not saying one would have to shun in such a case, but I could see doing it until she gets rehab or proper therapy or something.
Shunning for the kind of thing you mention I think is supposed to be like a conditional shunning to get the "wayward sinner" to repent. The idea being "I will shun you until you repent of the sin, but I still love you and want your repentance." A practical problem I have with that is it often fails. (The other problems are adequately dealt with by others) The person feels rebuked so rebukes back and then something that might have resolved itself becomes a permanent rift. Even if the person decides the adultery was wrong they may feel they can't trust you and just make leaving permanent.
It being on a pastor's say so, particularly one with a potential conflict of interest, would seem to be something you should be allowed to question. I'm guessing your denomination didn't have any kind of appeals process or higher ups, but I could see asking for the Biblical basis of the demand.
I think there probably are times when shunning makes sense. For example if the daughter is a genuine threat to you or your community. By that I mean if every time you see her she steals from you, beats you, steals from the church, physically assaults its members, leaves illegal drugs lying around where small kids can grab them, etc. I'm not saying one would have to shun in such a case, but I could see doing it until she gets rehab or proper therapy or something.
Shunning for the kind of thing you mention I think is supposed to be like a conditional shunning to get the "wayward sinner" to repent. The idea being "I will shun you until you repent of the sin, but I still love you and want your repentance." A practical problem I have with that is it often fails. (The other problems are adequately dealt with by others) The person feels rebuked so rebukes back and then something that might have resolved itself becomes a permanent rift. Even if the person decides the adultery was wrong they may feel they can't trust you and just make leaving permanent.
It being on a pastor's say so, particularly one with a potential conflict of interest, would seem to be something you should be allowed to question. I'm guessing your denomination didn't have any kind of appeals process or higher ups, but I could see asking for the Biblical basis of the demand.
I have distanced myself from friends who became drug addicts but your own daughter? I have a daughter turning 18 tomorrow... I don't think she could do ANYTHING to make me shun her.
Fact is that some Christians are so weak they think sin is contagious.
It being on a pastor's say so, particularly one with a potential conflict of interest, would seem to be something you should be allowed to question. I'm guessing your denomination didn't have any kind of appeals process or higher ups, but I could see asking for the Biblical basis of the demand.
This is the thing that hit me is that the pastor has a conflict of interest -- his daughter is the injured party in all of this and his natural human reaction would very possibly cloud his judgment .......
I agree with what you, and others have said, that the daughter needs to be told that what they did is wrong, but IMO it would also be wrong for the daughter to be "shunned"
Let's try to simplify the scripture and then carefully analyze it.
"If . . one comes to me and does not hate his own . . . . children . . . he cannot be my disciple."
This is only to show the extent of how we should commit our whole being to loving and trusting OUR CREATOR. Focus on Him and he will take care of the rest...including your concerns toward your loves ones.
We are to have faith/trust and rest in HIM.
Quote:
It gets worse:
"he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." -Jesus Christ
Lovely!
HOW ON EARTH could anyone want to worship anyone who would demand this?
I could and do...for The Saviour showed us (not demanded) by how he lived in utmost humility...that the creator's attributes are not lacking of 1) Love, 2)Compassion, 3)Mercy and Forgiveness.
I absolutely LOVE HIM and always making an effort to love the most unlovable creature that I encounter each day......difficult......but can be done...the loving the unlovable part...but I also believe...that's how God feels about my errors at times...
You may not see or understand this kind of reason now (it's okay)...for it is peculiar only to those who believe that we are special...created by THE CREATOR WHO LOVED US UNCONDITIONALLY. At one time, in a distant past...you and I were of one mind...His Will be done!
There's none here who agrees with the pastor about abandoning your daughter! Christians, Believer's and non believer's, non Christian's alike are in agreement!! How powerful we can be when we're all in agreement huh?
There's none here who agrees with the pastor about abandoning your daughter! Christians, Believer's and non believer's, non Christian's alike are in agreement!!How powerful we can be when we're all in agreement huh?
Yes we can all agree on that! A child is a gift from G-d and should be treated that way.
Look - we can judge everybody all we want - but the fact is that we only know the tip of the iceberg in this situation. The girl is only 19. We don't really know much at that age - although we think we do. And who knows - maybe it is true love just ill-timed and played out poorly. Maybe the marriage was going to fall apart anyway. Maybe he pursued her. Maybe she pursed him. Maybe it is a big mistake and will blow up in their faces. Was it gone about the wrong way? Of course! But how it ends up - only time will tell. The important thing here is not to judge but to show that some love is unconditional. We all make mistakes. Some mistakes are bigger than others. Some tiny mistakes can have huge repercussions. Some huge mistakes turn out not to be so bad.
If there is one thing that I learned from my mother and father - it is that you are always there for your child - no matter what. My husband and I are hoping to have children soon. They don't exist yet and I don't know them - but I already know that I will love them more than my own life. I will love them no matter what they do. I will love them like I have never loved before. And I will NEVER turn my back on them.
Let's try to simplify the scripture and then carefully analyze it.
"If . . one comes to me and does not hate his own . . . . children . . . he cannot be my disciple."
It gets worse:
"he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." -Jesus Christ
Lovely!
HOW ON EARTH could anyone want to worship anyone who would demand this?
It might be helpful to you to know the context in which Jesus was speaking in Matthew 10:37
He was basically giving instructions to the 12 apostles for what was expected on them in their service to God.
His whole point was that God has to come first in your life, and when He does all else falls into place.
The truth is, there was no Hebrew word for "hate" - that is not what Jesus ever said (and why would he when he clearly told us to "love our enemies"? Hating our family would just be ridiculous and NOT what Jesus would ever want). He was basically saying we should love no one person more than we love God.
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There is more to words than meets the eye!
...difficult...
...but can be done...the loving the unlovable part
...but I also believe...that's how God feels about my errors at times...
