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Jesus said he would protect His Church. Either He did and the Catholic Church is still the only authentic (Jesus Authorized) Christian church there is or Jesus was either powerless or a liar and Christianity is total hogwash. Pick one.
Third option: You misunderstood what Jesus said (i.e. "the gates of hell will not prevail against it") and assumed that He meant that the institutional Church would always exist exactly as He built it.
Jesus gave total authority solely to Peter. Peter handed some authority to colleagues to run the various districts, but not the FINAL Authority. Jesus gave NO Authority to the other Apostles, nor any other Christian layman. The chair of Peter still resides in Rome. Currently, Pope Benedict XVI sits in that chair. It's as simple as that.
It's NEVER GOING TO CHANGE. Move on, Ted.
juj you are standing on shakey ground
do you reject the following document from the Vatican II Council?
LUMEN GENTIUM - Dogmatic Constitution of The Roman Catholic Church
12. The holy people of God shares also in Christ's prophetic office; it spreads abroad a living witness to Him, especially by means of a life of faith and charity and by offering to God a sacrifice of praise, the tribute of lips which give praise to His name.(110) The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One,(111) cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples' supernatural discernment in matters of faith when "from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful" (8*) they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals. That discernment in matters of faith is aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth. It is exercised under the guidance of the sacred teaching authority, in faithful and respectful obedience to which the people of God accepts that which is not just the word of men but truly the word of God.(112) Through it, the people of God adheres unwaveringly to the faith given once and for all to the saints,(113) penetrates it more deeply with right thinking, and applies it more fully in its life.
Cardinal Roger Mahoney will be retiring soon......yay! Um, is it wrong of me to be happy that he is retiring? Hopefully Archbishop Gomez will be a tad more traditional and much more vocal than good old Cardinal Mahoney.
I don't think it is wrong to be happy that a new archbishop will take over. Mahony is revered in LA aside from the priest sex scandals but a new cardinal will be nice.
Iranaeus (170-190 AD) clearly knew that Peter was the head and Rome was Christianity central. If the orthodox broke off, it's their problem and their herecy. Jesus said he would protect His Church. Either He did and the Catholic Church is still the only authentic (Jesus Authorized) Christian church there is or Jesus was either powerless or a liar and Christianity is total hogwash. Pick one.
So, yea, it's that simple.
We've been down this road before and yet you seem to have learned nothing.Forget what your Catholic masters tell you and realize this fact.When there are originally 5 churches,and one church (the RCC) goes off on it's own path,that means that it is the RCC that has left the other 4.It is inane nonsense to try and claim that the 4 churches that remained together as a somehow left the Catholic church.The Catholic church abandoned the principles of the original church and left the original churches to create it's own version.
And Iraneus was a part of the western church,so what exactly did you expect someone from the Latin church to claim?
Actually, I would like everyone who attends Mass to actually follow the teachings of the Catholic Church in matters of Faith and Morals, instead of picking and choosing those which they "feel like" following. Until that happens, I would prefer that they stop pretending that they are Catholic.
Scandal does not "bring people to Christ."
Excellent point! Way too many "pick and choose" Catholics out there. Many have chosen to follow the false prophets............ renegade priests.
Excellent point! Way too many "pick and choose" Catholics out there. Many have chosen to follow the false prophets............ renegade priests.
Or perhaps they have chosen to use their own minds as God intended rather than be sheeple who are content to be told what to believe by priests who's moral authority to be spiritual guides is not as sure a thing as it was 100 years ago.
Or perhaps they have chosen to use their own minds as God intended rather than be sheeple who are content to be told what to believe by priests who's moral authority to be spiritual guides is not as sure a thing as it was 100 years ago.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same god who has endowed us with sense, reason and
intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
Or perhaps they have chosen to use their own minds as God intended rather than be sheeple who are content to be told what to believe by priests who's moral authority to be spiritual guides is not as sure a thing as it was 100 years ago.
Okiegirl and some of the other usual suspects believe in blind obedience to the hierarchy, so to believe the following is a matter of faith.
VEHEMENTER NOS
Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906.
It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock, those who occupy a rank in the different degrees of the hierarchy and the multitude of the faithful. So distinct are these categories that with the pastoral body only rests the necessary right and authority for promoting the end of the society and directing all its members towards that end; the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors.
They would also have to agree with and support this position if they had lived in this time period.
Catholics are required to believe that it is the will of God that all heretics, in this case particularly Lutherans, to be burned at the stake. If they hold the opposite view, the are excommunicated.
Exsurge Domine, Pope Leo X:
Thesis 33. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit
"With the advice and consent of these our venerable brothers, with mature deliberation on each and every one of the above theses, and by the authority of almighty God, the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and our own authority, we condemn, reprobate, and reject completely each of these theses or errors as either heretical, scandalous, false, offensive to pious ears or seductive of simple minds, and against Catholic truth. By listing them, we decree and declare that all the faithful of both sexes must regard them as condemned, reprobated, and rejected . . . We restrain all in the virtue of holy obedience and under the penalty of an automatic major excommunication...."
Once again the three criteria of papal infallibility according to Vatian I:
1. in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
2. in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority,
3. he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church,
Note:
"The will of the Spirit" would be a matter of faith.
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