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Unread 09-25-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Washington State
3,371 posts, read 1,737,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Herefornow,
It's the same because it so happens to be the truth. Your last two paragraphs indicates how many downplay the seriousness of sin and unbelief. There will be no relief from the wrath, death is final. Either you're found to be righteous \ perfect or you're not at the Judges throne.

Perfection \ righteousness is all or nothing. Either 100% God's doing or 100% your doing.
Tradition has made a foolish mess of the truth. We have churches all over the world who ALL think they have the truth. 99% of them are wrong. Once the Catholic church mixed the GOOD NEWS with politics and pagan teachings, the TRUTH fell apart. It has gotten worse and worse. Christianity has done NO better than the Jews of old. When Jesus showed up to clean house, they were all sitting around feeling smug in their bubble, content to see God destroy the real evil-doers of the world. The judgment is coming around again, but this time.........

L. Ray Smith - You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!



Big picture time:

Revelation 5:13. Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

John 1:29. "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen

Colossians 1:20. and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 04:11 PM
 
11,408 posts, read 5,232,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Again the problem here is commentary that does not match what words the scriptures referred to contain.

1 Timothy 2:4 contains the word translated various ways. "Will" "wish" "Desire" however all one has to do is look it up and oit's primary use is "To determine"
1 Tim 2:3-4 'This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.'

Paul is not stating that it is God's absolute declaration that all men are going to be saved. It is God's wish that all men would come to a knowledge of the truth.

Who desires that all men be saved. The Scriptures consistently reveal that it is the divine will that all should come to life. But God does not will to save men irrespective of the conditions of salvation. For anyone to be saved, they must come unto a knowledge of the truth. In other words, they must hear, receive, and obey the gospel of salvation.


By no means does the usage of a word necessarily refer to its primary usage.

Theló: Definition: to will, wish. NASB Word Usage
am...willing (1), am willing (3), delighting (1), delights (1), desire (14), desired (4), desires (4), desiring (2), intended (1), intending (1), like (3), maintain (1), mean (1), mean* (2), please (1), purposed (1), refused* (1), unwilling* (11), want (52), wanted (15), wanting (3), wants (8), will (5), willed (1), willing (15), wills (4), wish (24), wished (7), wishes (16), wishing (4), would (1).

Other places in the New Testament where the word thelō obviously means to desire or wish, are Luke 8:20; Luke 23:8; John 16:19; Galatians 4:20; Mark 7:24; 1 Corinthians 7:7; 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 14:5; Matthew 15:28.

Quote:
All those other words are Valid when in context with what Gods Job is, since Salvation is of God and NOT OF US, then the context is something that only God can do. If God will do all his desire, then the context is that anything that is Gods Job to do, simply will get done with no exceptions.
The work involved in making savation possible for man was performed by Jesus Christ on the Cross. None of what Christ did on the Cross will keep anyone who does not receive the gift of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, from spending eternity in the lake of fire.

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. The life is eternal because it is God's very own life imputed to the believer.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

Quote:
So the other verse you posted do not even begin to say what you have wrote.

John 5:40 is about reaping what we sow.
John 5:39 ''You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; 40] And you are unwilling to come to Me that you may have life.

The Jews to whom Jesus spoke did not believe He was the Messiah. John 6:36 ''But I said to you, that you have seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

The reason that they did not believe that Christ was the Messiah and therefore did not come to Him that they might be saved, is because they did not believe the witness of John (John 5:33-35); they did not believe the witness of Works (John 5:36); they did not believe the witness of the Father (John 5:37-38); they did not believe the witness of the Scripture (John 5:39-47).

In John 5:40, Jesus is addressing unbelievers who are not saved and will not come to Him for salvation.


Quote:
Acts 7:51 is about our nature
Stephen is addressing unbelievers who are about to stone him to death immediately after he gives his defense.

Acts 7:51 ''You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. 52] Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute?

These men to whom Stephen spoke were unbelievers and were resisting the Holy Spirit and therefore not saved as long as they continued to do so.


Quote:
2 Thessalonians is about suffering loss by disobedience. None of that prevents Gods determinate will to save all men from happening.
2 Thess 2:10 'and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11] And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might be believe what is false, 12] in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

This passage is about unbelievers perishing during the Tribulation because they will reject the truth of the Gospel and be deceived by the antichrist - the lawless one.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 04:30 PM
 
5,993 posts, read 1,778,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Hell is not a Greek mythology.
True, it represents the grave; imperceptible to most.
Whereas, the Greek fire of Hades is bogus.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 04:55 PM
 
5,993 posts, read 1,778,979 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Paul is not stating that it is God's absolute declaration that all men are going to be saved. It is God's wish that all men would come to a knowledge of the truth.
Religious dogmatists’ always insist that faith depends on their point of doctrine, which they themselves have come to believe is absolute, as quoted above.
However, when confronted with evidence, contrary to their perceptions that present other possibilities; they respond with great zeal and bogus indignation.
Ironically, denying the Lord of Glory himself, who will accomplish "All He was sent to accomplish" and even the Scriptures to which they claim adherence.

Side notation: An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death, an imperishable truth. Thus, there are no fallen angels, only human messengers.
But
eating from the tree of man’s knowledge, leads to the Spirits downfall.

And Eternal ...with this, no therefore, because of this ...there is not dualistic causality; it is the dichotomy of the mind which speaks of good and evil.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 05:33 PM
 
11,408 posts, read 5,232,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Religious dogmatists’ always insist that faith depends on their point of doctrine, which they themselves have come to believe is absolute, as quoted above.
However, when confronted with evidence, contrary to their perceptions that present other possibilities; they respond with great zeal and bogus indignation.
Ironically, denying the Lord of Glory himself, who will accomplish "All He was sent to accomplish" and even the Scriptures to which they claim adherence.


The posters statement above is his reaction to what I wrote in post #432.

Religious? Not in the least. Religion is the invention of Satan. Dogmatic? Absolutely!!!!!!!!!

Aparently the following is what got to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Paul is not stating that it is God's absolute declaration that all men are going to be saved. It is God's wish that all men would come to a knowledge of the truth.

Readers may refer back to post #432 for all that I wrote. And by all means, don't forget to take a look at my great zeal and bogus indignation.


Quote:
Quote:
[font=Verdana]
Side notation: [i]An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death, an imperishable truth. Thus, there are no fallen angels, only human messengers.
Well, you just admitted that you don't believe in fallen angels. This is in spite of the fact that the Bible is clear that they exist. Revelation 12:7-9; Matthew 25:41.

You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe, and reject the rest as doctrines of men.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 07:31 PM
 
5,993 posts, read 1,778,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And by all means, don't forget to take a look at my great zeal and bogus indignation.
Reading the archives of that which you continually state takes time, and I will not waste mine any longer. Although, I cannot speak for others.

Quote:
Well, you just admitted that you don't believe in fallen angels. This is in spite of the fact that the Bible is clear that they exist. Revelation 12:7-9; Matthew 25:41.
It is obvious, that you do not understand the meaning of words, but rely on others to translate them for you according to your own beliefs.

An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death, an imperishable truth. Thus, there are no fallen angels, only human messengers.

Quote:
You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe, and reject the rest as doctrines of men.
I reserve the right to reject the false teachings of men, contrary to your forced opinion.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 07:48 PM
 
11,408 posts, read 5,232,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Reading the archives of that which you continually state takes time, and I will not waste mine any longer. Although, I cannot speak for others.

It is obvious, that you do not understand the meaning of words, but rely on others to translate them for you according to your own beliefs.
Well, a calvinist said pretty much the same thing when I pointed out the absurdity of his beliefs.


Quote:
An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death, an imperishable truth. Thus, there are no fallen angels, only human messengers.

I reserve the right to reject the false teachings of men, contrary to your forced opinion.
Angels have free will just as man does. One third of the angels chose to rebel against God and side with Satan. They are fallen and will spend eternity in the lake of fire which was prepared for them. And all unbelievers who have died as such will spend the eternal future along with those fallen angels. Angels don't die physically. But the fallen angels will be separated from God forever. Man is subject to physical death but even the unbeliever will be resurrected to stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment and be thrown body and soul into the eternal lake of fire.

The majority of people will reject the truth of God's word. The majority of the human race will reject the Gospel. And they will be eternally lost. They will be casualties in the angelic conflict.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 09:23 PM
 
5,993 posts, read 1,778,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The majority of people will reject the truth of God's word. The majority of the human race will reject the Gospel. And they will be eternally lost. They will be casualties in the angelic conflict.
Absurdity at its best, and manifestly false.

"A counterfeit understanding is not good news."
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Unread 09-25-2010, 09:42 PM
 
11,408 posts, read 5,232,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Absurdity at its best, and manifestly false.

"A counterfeit understanding is not good news."
To the contrary. The Scriptures which you hold in such low esteem make it clear that relatively speaking, few will be saved.

The good news is that by simply believing in Christ for salvation based on His work on the Cross, one can come out from under comdemnation and be saved. The reality is that in the history of the human race, most will not receive Jesus Christ as Savior.

To say that all will be saved when the word of God says otherwise, makes one a false prophet and places him squarely on the side of Satan in the angelic conflict, and to continually say it when the truth has been presented to him makes one a wolf in sheeps clothing.

John 3:36 'He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not believe shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 10:13 PM
 
5,993 posts, read 1,778,979 times
Reputation: 537
Mike555

It's your commentaries, opinions, and interpretations which are considered as having no value, not the Scriptures.

But "mahalo" for the compliment, nothing like a good adversary
.
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