So I'm gay. Now what? (sinners, New Testament, vain, Christians)

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

to spend time in castro st (SF) and attend any gay parade would greatly challenge that assumption friend.
i am not saying that i dont have normal gay friends but let me be very honest, for the most part those "normals" are border line closet gays.

I've been to SF and I go to Gay Pride annually. So I am very aware that these scenes do exist. I'm not denying their existence. I am simply saying there is just as much diversity in being gay as there is in being straight. Some people do drugs, some don't. Some people have a lot of sex, some don't. Some of those people are straight, and some of those people are gay. Saying that all gay people are into the "gay scene" described earlier is like saying all straight people like BDSM just because some straight people are into BDSM. It's a small part of the whole picture. There's a lot more ways to "be gay" than getting involved in the "gay scene."

I'm "normal" and I'm "out" and I know a lot of gay people that are both "normal" and "out." Being "loud and proud" isn't the only way to be "out."

[Bideshi]

If I am attracted to women other than my wife, that in itself is not a sin. If I act on that attraction and commit adultery, it is very much a sin. So it is with homosexual attraction. Don't give in to that temptation and there is no sin. Homosexual behavior is sinful, just as adulterous behavior is sinful. God makes the rules and says what is right and wrong.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

The Bible is the Word of God and since Paul writes about homosexuals in his letter to the Corinthians, what he wrote applies to the Gentiles. If it was strictly only a Levtical law, it would not have been written about to the Corinthians.

Here's the verse 1 Corinthians 6:9 (KJV):

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

So my two questions are:

1) Does effeminate necessarily mean "gay"? If not, should Christians be okay with butch gay men? If "effeminate" does in fact mean "gay,"

2) What does the Bible say about lesbians? So far every verse I've ever read only talks about men, but there's no mention of lesbianism to be found anywhere. Why is it that so many Christians oppose both male and female homosexuality when the Bible only really discusses male homosexuality?

[Enow]

Originally Posted by nep321

I am a 26 year-old male and grew up in a Christian conservative household, and I am physically attracted to the same sex. I even went to CCD every Sunday, got confirmed and regularly prayed to God. I never consciously chose to be this way, but I am this way. I can't even tell apart from an attractive woman to an average looking woman. However, I can easily identify an attractive man versus a not-so-attractive man. I simply have no desire to be with a woman. I do have a desire to be with another man, though.

Does this mean that I will not make it to God's kingdom when I die? The Bible doesn't state that being gay is wrong, but does mention that "lying with mankind as with womankind is an abomination." Does this mean that I have to suppress my feelings and be single forever? Or, should I pretend to like women so that I can have a family someday and never tell my wife that I'm actually attracted to men?

What am I supposed to do? Please help. I don't want to go to hell.

I want a true Christian to tell me how to handle this situation.

What you are going through is no different than any other sinful biological drive that exists in sinners in other areas of sin: example: alcoholism

Some posters will try to sympathize and rationalize a political correct answer for you to take your mind at ease, but the power of sin is what we are addressing here and it is that necessity is why Jesus came into the world to destroy the works oif the devil in our lives so that we shall no longer live in bondage to sin and to death.

1 John 3: 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Now the world has clouded and blurred the meaning of love to be so associated with lust that they cannot imagine love being passionless, but true love is passionless.

1 Corinthians 13: 4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8Charity never faileth:

Lust seeks to satisfy self: Love seeks the good of the other.

Love is not lust and lust is not love.

Galatians 5:17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
John 15:13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

The next time you look at a man, look to Jesus and know that He paid the price to deliver you from seeing the image of the man as a sexual attraction to seeing instead your neighbor whom you are to really love and not lust after in seeking your own end and thus avoiding causing your neighbor to sin also.

Mark 12: 30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Look to Jesus and trust Him to do what He came to do.

Romans 6:14For sin shall not have dominion over you: .......

1 Corinthians 10: 12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Love God more than man by asking Jesus to deliver you from your bondage to this sin and to crucify the affections and the lusts thereof so that love... true love... Christlike love... will reign in your heart, seeking the good of the other and not of your own gain.

As a believer, you are saved, but as of this moment, you are not abiding in Him, and thus the call for every believer out there is the same given here:

2 Timothy 2: 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Your crisis of faith rests on believing the world about what homosexuality is as being normal or believing His word and that it is for that cause the Lord Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners from their sins so that they will no longer live in them.

The world would like everyone to believe that there is no devil just as the world would like everyone to believe that homosexuality is not a sin that needs Jesus to obtain deliverance from.

Romans 6: 12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you:

1 Corinthians 6: 14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Just know that a search on the internet will yield stories of sinners delivered from their bondage to homosexuality by the Lord Jesus Christ.

May God grant that you shall share in that joy soon.

[scgraham]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

If I am attracted to women other than my wife, that in itself is not a sin. If I act on that attraction and commit adultery, it is very much a sin. So it is with homosexual attraction. Don't give in to that temptation and there is no sin. Homosexual behavior is sinful, just as adulterous behavior is sinful. God makes the rules and says what is right and wrong.

Very well said. Resist the devil and he will flee.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 forbid a man lying with another man as one would with a woman. Leviticus was originally written in Hebrew, but Paul was a Greek-educated Jew writing to Gentiles in Greek, the common language of the day, and probably was using the Greek translation of the Old Testament available in that day, the Septuagint, or LXX, for his Scripture quotations.


The Greek translation of these Leviticus passages condemns a man (arseno) lying with (koitai) another man (arseno); these words (excuse the pun) lie side-by-side in these passages in Leviticus. Paul joins these two words together into a neologism, a new word (as we do in saying database or software), and thus he condemns in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy what was condemned in Leviticus.

It's already been said by many Christians who oppose homosexuality that they don't take into account Leviticus, because that was written for the Hebrew people. So whether or not Leviticus specifies that homosexuality is a sin is irrelevant to those who claim not to follow the Old Testament. Of those Christians who do claim to follow the Old Testament, they carry the burden of having to explain why they disregard so many of the other verses in the Old Testament but still hold onto Lev. 18:22 and Lev. 20:13.

That said, the meaning of the term "arsenokoitai" used in 1 Tim. 1:9-10 and 1 Cor. 6:9 (both in the New Testament) is still a matter of debate among Biblical scholars, and of those who do agree that it refers to homosexuality, many believe it only refers to male homosexuality. Here are the verses 1 Timothy 1:9-10:

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

The same term is interpreted widely across different translations of the Bible, varying from "sexual perverts" (Today's English Version and Modern Language Bible) to "sexually perverted" (Phillips Modern English) to "sodomites" (Revised Standard Version, Young's Literal Translation) to "sin against nature" (The New Testament - Ronald Knox). (source) As you can see, many of the translations are more vague and don't specify homosexuality, so even in the case of the above-mentioned verses, there is at least some degree of interpretation left to scholars and specific congregations. The verses in the New Testament are vague at best, especially since the concept of homosexuality as an orientation didn't arise until later. (In earlier societies homosexuality was often practiced by married people as something on the side.)

Being homophobic remains a choice for Christians. They can decide to take into account Lev. 18:22 and Lev. 20:13 or not, and they can also decide how they want to interpret 1 Tim 1:9-10 and 1 Cor. 6:9, and from there, each Christian can come to their own conclusion about whether homosexuality is a sin or not.

[CantWait2Leave]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Here's the verse 1 Corinthians 6:9 (KJV):



So my two questions are:

1) Does effeminate necessarily mean "gay"? If not, should Christians be okay with butch gay men? If "effeminate" does in fact mean "gay,"

2) What does the Bible say about lesbians? So far every verse I've ever read only talks about men, but there's no mention of lesbianism to be found anywhere. Why is it that so many Christians oppose both male and female homosexuality when the Bible only really discusses male homosexuality?

1) What's most important is the Greek word "arsenokoitai" since that is what Paul used. If you read what I wrote about, I already explained this.

2) Romans 1:26-27

[Phazelwood]

The only way any one equates "homosexuality" with sin is by coming to the table with their scriptures in hand already asserting that it is a sin. There is nothing in scripture that declares homosexuality a sin, it is all inference and there is no way around that.

In the old testament there is only a reference to a specific act which would exclude lesbians. In the new testament a reference is always given about male and female in marruage which if taken physically literal will exclude hermaphrodites. When the question of hermaphrodites comes into play anyone who thinks they know that scripture means a physical male and female bodily attibutes is completely forced to offer an "opinion" because they cannot reconcile that with the scripture at all.

The issue of you being gay is the same as any other behaviour that is profitable. If you believe it is ok to sleep around and act a fool, then the problem has nothing to do with being gay any more than a heterosexual sleeping around is wise just because they can rationalize all their relationships as being good.

If you wish for a biblical perspective then it is simple, avoid anal sex and only develop a true loving relationship intended to be selfless and comitted to another. Promiscuity and using others for your self gratification without any regard to their heart and life is primarily what the bible is speaking against. All of which is proven to be unwise in reality.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

1) What's most important is the Greek word "arsenokoitai" since that is what Paul used. If you read what I wrote about, I already explained this.

2) Romans 1:26-27

To which I replied. Here's another link that goes more into detail about the meaning of the word "arsenokoitai."

HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT: CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL VIEWS

[nimchimpsky]

From Romans 1:28-32 (KJV):

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The very next five verses following Rom. 1:26-27 claim that being proud or disobedient to your parents is "worthy of death." Do modern Christians believe this? Even within the New Testament, there are verses that are largely ignored because they're absurd. Why are so many Christians latching onto the verses that talk, in varying degrees of vagueness, about homosexuality being a sin? It's a matter of choice. Homophobia is a personal choice, not a requirement in order to be a faithful Christian.