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Old 09-08-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
7,889 posts, read 7,715,914 times
Reputation: 17309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. Jesus was not A Savior. He was THE Savior. The only Savior.

Moses is in heaven today because he believed in the Messiah which is Jesus. People in Old Testament times looked forward to the Cross, whereas we look back toward the Cross.

Acts 4:12 ''And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved.''

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, ''I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.

No one is saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ. The false prophet Mohammed is in hades today, and will spend eternity in the lake of fire unless he received Jesus as Savior before he died. The same goes for all the religious leaders of all the religions of the world. Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus had a much taller order to fill than any missionary out there today. Jesus was "selected" to spread the word of a newer, kinder Divine Order through Israel, and He was literally "it"! I interpret John 14:6 to mean that Jesus was on this tremendous mission all by Himself, that the sole responsibility was on Him with a few converted helpers (disciples). The Divine's message was a new set of rules to live by, which primarily involved more compassion than the teachings of the Old Testament. I do not interpret this Psalm to say that the only way to cross over to something better is only "through" Jesus alone. I think He was conveying "Hey, you can't get The New Word through anyone but Me at this point in time ~ PLEASE listen to what I have to say!"

To me that all makes God sound narcisstic. He has rules, He expects us to do no harm, and I think all He expects of us is to LIVE right and respect His teachings whether people even accept Him or not. I know that sounds a little strange, but I truly do not believe that God needs worship, or that we all have to believe on how we go about honoring his rules. Yes, I believe Jesus was Savior, and His Word is still around 2000 years later. Other religions are even older.

Buddhism does not believe in a Creator but prayer and meditation still fits into their religion, and they teach and live compassion and peace, which I'm sure scores a lot of points with the Creator WE believe in.

I'm sure God would love to convince more atheists and agnostics but He's had to contend with them 'em around since the beginning. Again, I think a non-believer who, for example, spreads some goodwill by partaking of something to ease others in need, still scores points for providing compassion for his fellow man. God can take criticism. It's the equivalent to earthlings raising teenagers.

Today's missionaries have numerous demoninations of Christian religions along with numerous "other" religions to compete against. Unlike Jesus, they often feel they have to compete against other Christian religions. But I think they have it easy compared to what Jesus did.

Last edited by Bluesmama; 09-08-2010 at 09:57 PM..

 
Old 09-08-2010, 10:24 PM
 
4,799 posts, read 3,902,505 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Jesus is Christ
Jesus is God in the flesh
The Bible is the inspired word of God

Just to name a few facts.

When you present some real facts, as opposed to "beliefs," I'll listen. Thanks.
 
Old 09-08-2010, 10:42 PM
 
4,799 posts, read 3,902,505 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And as I told you, it is God who appointed the Apostles. The church had no business trying to vote anyone into that position. That was Peter's lamebrain idea. Not God's.

What happened to the "where 3 or more are gathered I will be in their midst" principle on this? Were not the Disciples all in one accord praying about this?
 
Old 09-08-2010, 10:48 PM
 
12,785 posts, read 6,757,106 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
Jesus had a much taller order to fill than any missionary out there today. Jesus was "selected" to spread the word of a newer, kinder Divine Order through Israel, and He was literally "it"! I interpret John 14:6 to mean that Jesus was on this tremendous mission all by Himself, that the sole responsibility was on Him with a few converted helpers (disciples). The Divine's message was a new set of rules to live by, which primarily involved more compassion than the teachings of the Old Testament. I do not interpret this Psalm to say that the only way to cross over to something better is only "through" Jesus alone. I think He was conveying "Hey, you can't get The New Word through anyone but Me at this point in time ~ PLEASE listen to what I have to say!"

To me that all makes God sound narcisstic. He has rules, He expects us to do no harm, and I think all He expects of us is to LIVE right and respect His teachings whether people even accept Him or not. I know that sounds a little strange, but I truly do not believe that God needs worship, or that we all have to believe on how we go about honoring his rules. Yes, I believe Jesus was Savior, and His Word is still around 2000 years later. Other religions are even older.

Buddhism does not believe in a Creator but prayer and meditation still fits into their religion, and they teach and live compassion and peace, which I'm sure scores a lot of points with the Creator WE believe in.

I'm sure God would love to convince more atheists and agnostics but He's had to contend with them 'em around since the beginning. Again, I think a non-believer who, for example, spreads some goodwill by partaking of something to ease others in need, still scores points for providing compassion for his fellow man. God can take criticism. It's the equivalent to earthlings raising teenagers.

Today's missionaries have numerous demoninations of Christian religions along with numerous "other" religions to compete against. Unlike Jesus, they often feel they have to compete against other Christian religions. But I think they have it easy compared to what Jesus did.
Jesus came into the world to go to the Cross and die for the sin's of the world so that whosoever believes in Him might not perish, but have eternal life through Him.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

No one scores points with God on the basis of their own human good. Isaiah 64:6. For all of us have become like one unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like filthy menstrual rags. That is what God thinks of human righteousness. Indeed, it is the unbelievers deeds resulting from his human righteousness which is the basis for his eternal condemnation to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).

No one, absolutely no one has eternal life apart from faith in Jesus Christ. All who die without Jesus Christ will spend eternity in torment in a state of utter ruin and uselessness in the lake of fire. That is what Jesus came to save us from. But you must make a volitional choice to receive Him as Savior.
 
Old 09-08-2010, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,665,604 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Did the cave painting have dates of authanticity?
Oh please! You can't be serious.

Quote:
Evolution is just a theory and I don't remember "Uncle Chimp".
Well that little claim demonstrates that I really am wasting my time.

Quote:
As I said before there is no stamp for actual date of such things.
OK! So we can throw out all the 'Bible archaeology' that is supposed to prove the Bible true can we?

Quote:
It has been found in Iraq.
You'd like to think it has.

Quote:
Chariot wheel have been found at the bottom of the red sea incrusted within coral reefs.
Oh no!! You're a believer in the scams of Ron Wyatt!!!!

Quote:
So you say the reverse couldnt have happened, gee so closed to facts.
So the Canaanite's own records are wrong??

Quote:
you really need to look a little better.
Then present your evidence that proves me wrong.

Quote:
Biblical referance please.
Ezek. 26:1-14. Note the name Nebuchadnezzar.

Quote:
Actual biblical referencer please
"Ezekiel 29:10 "Behold, therefore I [am] against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste [and] desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia."

Ezekiel 29:11 "No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years."

It didn't happen. Prophecy failed.

Quote:
You really need to look again.
Matthew has Jesus being born when Herod was alive. Herod died in 4BCE. Luke says he was born during the census of Quirinius...which was 6CE. So what was it that I need to look at again?

Quote:
You do realize this massacre mostlikely only killed maybe 20 kids and that at the time these things happened without being recorded
You do realise that you are clutching at straws.

Quote:
....but no big deal because like you said it has been confirmed by historical writings.
Did I??? Perhaps you'd be good enough to show me where I said this alleged massacre is confirmed by historical writings?
What I actually said was....

"We have accounts from Herod's enemies, describing his various "crimes". The Massacre is not among them."

Quote:
I dont know about the zombies but many did report seeing buried realatives, not an invasion but apperances. As for darkness scientists have shown that there was an eclipse but I dont recall it lasting for hours not even in the Bible.
Then let me remind you...

"Matthew 27:45 From noon on, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon."

Quote:
Easy one, you have misinterprited the quote you seemed to have left out. Let me paraphrase when Israel returns as a nation then that generation will see the return of Christ.
Your Jesus was speaking to the people in front of him, hence the...

"Those of you standing here...."
 
Old 09-08-2010, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,665,604 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Concerning both of your objections, read the information in the links that I provided. If you're not willing to do that then remain silent about things of which you know nothing.
Perhaps if you supplied links to serious verified, peer reviewed archaeological information rather than Bible apologist sites with an agenda to prove the Bible true, you might be taken a little more seriously.
 
Old 09-08-2010, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,665,604 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
There are, I must have missed that one because my salvation cost me nothing but a trip to the alter.
Nope! What your 'salvation' cost you was dedicating your life in complete obedience to religious dogma and the complete closing down of your mind to anything that contradicts what you so desperately want to be true..
 
Old 09-09-2010, 12:20 AM
 
33 posts, read 20,486 times
Reputation: 19
For those of you who disagree with the words of the Bible, or deny it's veracity, why do you keep swimming back across the river to argue about it ? Did you guys forget something when you left ?
 
Old 09-09-2010, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
7,889 posts, read 7,715,914 times
Reputation: 17309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus came into the world to go to the Cross and die for the sin's of the world so that whosoever believes in Him might not perish, but have eternal life through Him.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

No one scores points with God on the basis of their own human good. Isaiah 64:6. For all of us have become like one unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like filthy menstrual rags. That is what God thinks of human righteousness. Indeed, it is the unbelievers deeds resulting from his human righteousness which is the basis for his eternal condemnation to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).

No one, absolutely no one has eternal life apart from faith in Jesus Christ. All who die without Jesus Christ will spend eternity in torment in a state of utter ruin and uselessness in the lake of fire. That is what Jesus came to save us from. But you must make a volitional choice to receive Him as Savior.

There is nothing "unclean" about used menstrual rags. That would mean that babies are conceived as unclean. Isaiah was no different from most men who freak out over anything menstrual.

I believe the Bible was meant to be. It's Jesus's story along with some of the Old Testament included to give it the history leading up to Christ's arrival, and purpose. And that purpose was to spread the Creator's New Word.

However, the Bible's numerous authors were human beings. Humans can rarely keep a story straight for anything, be it memory or misinterpretation. I think there's a fair amount of inconsistencies in the Bible and I blame that on each individual's interpretations. Some were obviously a lot more dramatic than others. Some were more passive-natured than others, and it's all obvious in the writings. But they did the best they could in recording it all in writing, and they at least were in unison with the story of Christ, and The Book is still here.

Yes, He died on the cross for us all, and I adhere to my belief that it was to wake us all up to the New Word. God's word. It was the Creator that Christ was on a mission for, and I think He would agree that that is what He died on the cross for. We can worship Christ, as many do, while others worship a Higher Power in their own way, and if they live right, that's good enough.

And, so, Mike555, this makes my final entry, because as a rule I do not post more than three per thread. I relinquish the last word to you ~ just make it a good one.
 
Old 09-09-2010, 06:13 AM
 
4,799 posts, read 3,902,505 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4:17 View Post
For those of you who disagree with the words of the Bible, or deny it's veracity, why do you keep swimming back across the river to argue about it ? Did you guys forget something when you left ?
Your very first few words provides the answer.
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