My Letter to Christian author Bill Wiese (Author of 23 minutes in Hell), and the response I got (paradise, tradition)

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

Y
BTW: my husband and I live in WA state, and if you drive up [100 miles from Portland] we'll be happy to answer your questions -and give you dinner.

Don't go! It could be roadkill!!!

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

how to cook and eat roadkill; can we eat roadkill? is it dangerous?

Born again in Christ believers are forbidden to eat the flesh with the blood, and so roadkill must needs be bled to be kosher for Christians, but other people who do not claim Christ as LORD have discovered the free food they can have in hard times by utilizing roadkill.

About roadkill uses and laws in various states -
http://frontierfolk.net/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=26248&highlight=&sid=2ff8b3d8b593e ad5611b47ca22f44aa2 (broken link)

[Ilene Wright]

How did we go from 23 minutes in hell to eating roadkill?? LOL! I guess that's a little slice of hell in itself?

[ditchlights]

Originally Posted by RobinD69

ditchlights
Please dont take this the wrong way but it looks like your problem might be selfishness. In your email to Weiss you seemed focused on yourself when you need to be focus on Christ. You seem to have the desire but your focus is flawed so dont expect some big happening for your salvation just focus on Christ and it will come. I will pray for you.

If expressing one's feelings and opinions and asking a few (what I feel are) highly relevant questions is what constitutes selfishness these days, I guess I'm guilty as charged. But thank you for your prayers. My mother says she has people at 4 different churches praying for my salvation. One more person can't hurt, right?

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

You know, she was helpful to you in saying that he had addressed what you said, in his book, and she said you could read it for free in a store....and so you can.
You got a problem with that?

You and I may have different opinions as to what passes as being considered helpful. I was looking for a slightly more personal response than a generic sales pitch (and a quote from Mr. Twain, nonetheless). I realize Mr. Wiese is a busy man, but sending no reply at all would have been more proper. It was marginal at best. I'm not stupid. I know I can walk into a Border's and read the book. And I don't need scripture quoted to me, as I am very capable of reading any one of the 6 copies of the Bible I have at home.

After reading his first book, I strongly doubt he answers the questions I posed in my letter in the book his wife suggested. But to be fair and give the benefit of doubt, I will look it over when I have some time. By the way, the book he's selling is called 23 Questions About Hell. My questions are not about hell as much as the factors that lead up to it.

Originally Posted by firstborn888

Don't go! It could be roadkill!!!

I've had my share of Possum Helper in Oregon this last week. It was Thanksgiving on the cheap! LOL!

[RobinD69]

Originally Posted by ditchlights

If expressing one's feelings and opinions and asking a few (what I feel are) highly relevant questions is what constitutes selfishness these days, I guess I'm guilty as charged. But thank you for your prayers. My mother says she has people at 4 different churches praying for my salvation. One more person can't hurt, right?

We all get stuck in self from time to time its human nature, and that is what God is asking us to step out of our natural self. No one can teach you to have faith but please never give up God might be teaching you patience.

[HisTime2010]

Who is Annette?

[sciotamicks]

Originally Posted by ditchlights

but as a person that struggles with his faith.

Ditch,

Good to see you over here! PM me and I will forward you some links that may help a bit, or we can just talk!

SM

[ditchlights]

Originally Posted by HisTime2010

Who is Annette?

His wife and obviously business partner (judging by the reply).

[jaguar781]

23 minutes in Hell is full of contradictions and horrible logic. Here are a few contradictions:

The time:
1. “I knew it was 3 o’clock”
2. “I got up at 3 o’clock in the morning”
3. “about 3:00 o’clock in the morning I was taken.”
4. “it was between 2 and 3 a.m.”
5. “sometime maybe between midnight and 3 in the morning..That’s when I went to sleep, so it had to happen somewhere between there.”
6. “We went to bed at 11p.m., and sometime between 11 and 3 it happened.”
7. “I don’t know what time”
8. “he left at 3:00 a.m., so that’s where the 23 minutes came from.”

For knowing that it was exactly 23 minutes, he sure is inconsistent about the time.

Literal Experience vs. A Vision
1.“This was not a dream-I was actually in this strange place”
2. quotes Job 7:14 – “You scare me with dreams and terrify me with visions”

A vision is a dream. He contradicts himself.

Temperature
1. “the core temperature at the center of the earth is approximately twelve thousand degrees”
2. “all I knew was that it was extremely hot, terribly hot. It was so hot”
3. “I don’t know how hot it was”
4. “the ground was all rock, barren and desolate”

The center of the Earth is mainly composed of iron and estimated to be somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 Celsius or 5432 to 9032 Fahrenheit. The high pressure allows for solid to exist at higher temperatures. Note that the element with the highest melting point is carbon which is 3500 Celsius or 6332 Fahrenheit. Also tantalum hafnium carbide is a ceramic with a melting point of 4214 C or 7617 F. Weise claims that it was 12,000 degrees on ground he could walk on. This is impossible. Rocks are mainly made up of oxygen and silicon and could never reach that temperature.

Now let me explain the truth. The lake of fire is actual referring to God's purification and judgment of the unbelievers, and is not a place of torture, pain, or suffering. The lake of fire will restore everyone through grace and forgiveness so that the knowledge of the truth may be revealed to them. The original meaning of the Old English word hell was "to hid or to conceal" but it changed over the years. This is largely due to two sources. One is from St. Augustine’s book City of God, written in the 5th century, in which he misinterprets the Latin words speculum and aeternum from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which both have double meanings of “unending time” and “a period of time.” St. Augustine translates them to both mean “eternal,” instead of a period of time, thus leading to the phrases “eternal punishment” and “eternal life.” The second source is Dante’s Divine Comedy, written in the 14th century. Dante described hell in nine levels. The third round of the seventh level had burning plains with an eternal rain of fire. However, Dante’s ninth level of hell was a lake of ice, where Satan was frozen from the waist down. So the idea of the land on fire with a rain of fire only came from one specific level of the book. The combination of these two sources, plus the influence of the Roman Catholic Church, made this definition of hell a reality. There are four words for hell in the Bible: tartaroo, sheol, hades, and gehenna. The first three are referring to a literal or spiritual grave where your soul goes after death. There is no consciousness, pain, torture, or fire in the grave. Out of the four terms for hell, gehenna is the only one which is associated with fire. However, it is referring not to a literal fire, but a spiritual fire, also know as the lake of fire. For more on this see my articles on the lake of fire: Lake of Fire and hell: Hell God Bless.

[ans57]

Originally Posted by jaguar781

23 minutes in Hell is full of contradictions and horrible logic. Here are a few contradictions:

The time:
1. “I knew it was 3 o’clock”
2. “I got up at 3 o’clock in the morning”
3. “about 3:00 o’clock in the morning I was taken.”
4. “it was between 2 and 3 a.m.”
5. “sometime maybe between midnight and 3 in the morning..That’s when I went to sleep, so it had to happen somewhere between there.”
6. “We went to bed at 11p.m., and sometime between 11 and 3 it happened.”
7. “I don’t know what time”
8. “he left at 3:00 a.m., so that’s where the 23 minutes came from.”

For knowing that it was exactly 23 minutes, he sure is inconsistent about the time.

Literal Experience vs. A Vision
1.“This was not a dream-I was actually in this strange place”
2. quotes Job 7:14 – “You scare me with dreams and terrify me with visions”

A vision is a dream. He contradicts himself.

Temperature
1. “the core temperature at the center of the earth is approximately twelve thousand degrees”
2. “all I knew was that it was extremely hot, terribly hot. It was so hot”
3. “I don’t know how hot it was”
4. “the ground was all rock, barren and desolate”

The center of the Earth is mainly composed of iron and estimated to be somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 Celsius or 5432 to 9032 Fahrenheit. The high pressure allows for solid to exist at higher temperatures. Note that the element with the highest melting point is carbon which is 3500 Celsius or 6332 Fahrenheit. Also tantalum hafnium carbide is a ceramic with a melting point of 4214 C or 7617 F. Weise claims that it was 12,000 degrees on ground he could walk on. This is impossible. Rocks are mainly made up of oxygen and silicon and could never reach that temperature.

Now let me explain the truth. The lake of fire is actual referring to God's purification and judgment of the unbelievers, and is not a place of torture, pain, or suffering. The lake of fire will restore everyone through grace and forgiveness so that the knowledge of the truth may be revealed to them. The original meaning of the Old English word hell was "to hid or to conceal" but it changed over the years. This is largely due to two sources. One is from St. Augustine’s book City of God, written in the 5th century, in which he misinterprets the Latin words speculum and aeternum from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which both have double meanings of “unending time” and “a period of time.” St. Augustine translates them to both mean “eternal,” instead of a period of time, thus leading to the phrases “eternal punishment” and “eternal life.” The second source is Dante’s Divine Comedy, written in the 14th century. Dante described hell in nine levels. The third round of the seventh level had burning plains with an eternal rain of fire. However, Dante’s ninth level of hell was a lake of ice, where Satan was frozen from the waist down. So the idea of the land on fire with a rain of fire only came from one specific level of the book. The combination of these two sources, plus the influence of the Roman Catholic Church, made this definition of hell a reality. There are four words for hell in the Bible: tartaroo, sheol, hades, and gehenna. The first three are referring to a literal or spiritual grave where your soul goes after death. There is no consciousness, pain, torture, or fire in the grave. Out of the four terms for hell, gehenna is the only one which is associated with fire. However, it is referring not to a literal fire, but a spiritual fire, also know as the lake of fire. For more on this see my articles on the lake of fire: Lake of Fire and hell: Hell God Bless.

Provocative!!! Thanks for sharing...I read both links.

[tdinh]

Ok, so I am not going to debate on the temperature with regard to the core of the earth, however, anytime I see something that is off centered, I would like to address, and if I am wrong, please show me from scripture. So, as quoted "The lake of fire is actual referring to God's purification and judgment of the unbelievers, and is not a place of torture, pain, or suffering. The lake of fire will restore everyone through grace and forgiveness so that the knowledge of the truth may be revealed to them," as you state.

So lets delve into scripture, shall we. Revelation, chapter 20 verse 11, we can clearly see that there is a judgment of the dead, correct? The Bible refers to the Great White Throne Judgment, whereas, Jesus puts the goats (unbelievers) on one side, and believers (sheep) on the other side.

Here is the scripture in Matthew 25:31-46 (for full context, just read it in its entirety, but this is the brunt of it)

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left....Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world...Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels...Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Now, let me get this straight, I am not one to judge ones religion, sexuality or the like. If there is a debate on something I am passionate about, then I am all in.

So when you comment, "The lake of fire is actual referring to God's purification and judgment of the unbelievers, and is not a place of torture, pain, or suffering. The lake of fire will restore everyone through grace and forgiveness so that the knowledge of the truth may be revealed to them," this wouldn't make any sense. But the Bible states, cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels....Then they will go away to eternal punishment. So basically what your saying is, "yes, yes, that is true, for in the KJV (I am being sarcastic here) eternal actually means for a short time, and punishment is actually a good thing because a good beating of torture is good to excrete the sin out of us"....lol. ah, no. Or as you quote, "a period of time"....so a period of time you will be purified by punishment, eternally, or period of time, and the believers will have a period of time of righteousness because Jesus refers to the righterous having eternal life; but its only a period of time then for the believers, then too?...I am confused. Let me get this straight, in essence, the devil and his angels are going through a "period of time," also then too because that what is what your implying, or as my Bible states eternal, and they will be purified too and be welcomed into heaven. Oh, what joy...a liar and a father of lies, who was banned from heaven I will be with for eternity?? or a period of time?? . Sorry way, way to many contradictions, my friend.

Now, lets read revelation in its full context and tell me, is that what you honestly believe?

Here is a short summary

1) Great White Throne Judgment are for unbelievers
2) Anyone's name not written in the Book of life (Rev 20:15) will be thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death, with the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41)

So lets stop the word play, and lets go to the truth of the Bible. And as you can see, when you see me quote scripture, I will put it in its proper context, by backing it up by other verses, not leaving it alone, by itself and state that means truth.




Revelation 20


The Judgment of the Dead

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Originally Posted by jaguar781

23 minutes in Hell is full of contradictions and horrible logic. Here are a few contradictions:

The time:
1. “I knew it was 3 o’clock”
2. “I got up at 3 o’clock in the morning”
3. “about 3:00 o’clock in the morning I was taken.”
4. “it was between 2 and 3 a.m.”
5. “sometime maybe between midnight and 3 in the morning..That’s when I went to sleep, so it had to happen somewhere between there.”
6. “We went to bed at 11p.m., and sometime between 11 and 3 it happened.”
7. “I don’t know what time”
8. “he left at 3:00 a.m., so that’s where the 23 minutes came from.”

For knowing that it was exactly 23 minutes, he sure is inconsistent about the time.

Literal Experience vs. A Vision
1.“This was not a dream-I was actually in this strange place”
2. quotes Job 7:14 – “You scare me with dreams and terrify me with visions”

A vision is a dream. He contradicts himself.

Temperature
1. “the core temperature at the center of the earth is approximately twelve thousand degrees”
2. “all I knew was that it was extremely hot, terribly hot. It was so hot”
3. “I don’t know how hot it was”
4. “the ground was all rock, barren and desolate”

The center of the Earth is mainly composed of iron and estimated to be somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 Celsius or 5432 to 9032 Fahrenheit. The high pressure allows for solid to exist at higher temperatures. Note that the element with the highest melting point is carbon which is 3500 Celsius or 6332 Fahrenheit. Also tantalum hafnium carbide is a ceramic with a melting point of 4214 C or 7617 F. Weise claims that it was 12,000 degrees on ground he could walk on. This is impossible. Rocks are mainly made up of oxygen and silicon and could never reach that temperature.

Now let me explain the truth. The lake of fire is actual referring to God's purification and judgment of the unbelievers, and is not a place of torture, pain, or suffering. The lake of fire will restore everyone through grace and forgiveness so that the knowledge of the truth may be revealed to them. The original meaning of the Old English word hell was "to hid or to conceal" but it changed over the years. This is largely due to two sources. One is from St. Augustine’s book City of God, written in the 5th century, in which he misinterprets the Latin words speculum and aeternum from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which both have double meanings of “unending time” and “a period of time.” St. Augustine translates them to both mean “eternal,” instead of a period of time, thus leading to the phrases “eternal punishment” and “eternal life.” The second source is Dante’s Divine Comedy, written in the 14th century. Dante described hell in nine levels. The third round of the seventh level had burning plains with an eternal rain of fire. However, Dante’s ninth level of hell was a lake of ice, where Satan was frozen from the waist down. So the idea of the land on fire with a rain of fire only came from one specific level of the book. The combination of these two sources, plus the influence of the Roman Catholic Church, made this definition of hell a reality. There are four words for hell in the Bible: tartaroo, sheol, hades, and gehenna. The first three are referring to a literal or spiritual grave where your soul goes after death. There is no consciousness, pain, torture, or fire in the grave. Out of the four terms for hell, gehenna is the only one which is associated with fire. However, it is referring not to a literal fire, but a spiritual fire, also know as the lake of fire. For more on this see my articles on the lake of fire: Lake of Fire and hell: Hell God Bless.