You Must Be Willing To Be Obedient Unto Death (crucified, godless, belief)

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

I dare say, that even without a Bible to confuse and blind us, God will have His way with us!! Praise God!!

Blessings!
brian

Ps. Verna, why are you so angry??

I had interaction with God before I could ever read a bible, I would say that my walk got much more complicated when I could learn to read it and with everyone trying to tell me to believe this about it or else.

[ahigherway]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

I had interaction with God before I could ever read a bible, I would say that my walk got much more complicated when I could learn to read it and with everyone trying to tell me to believe this about it or else.

I too, when I look back on certain moments in life, I have a sense that God was there, and loving me all along! I don't know how to categorize certain feelings and memories which to me now seem so "heavenly," and they are not the pentacostal-dancing-around type experiences. VERY different.
And yet I'm sure that God is there, always, all along.. And when I reflect on Him, I feel so at peace and loved about it all!
(I just started a new thread on this very topic.., so as to not derail..)

Blessings,
brian

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

I dare say, that even without a Bible to confuse and blind us, God will have His way with us!! Praise God!!

Blessings!
brian

Ps. Verna, why are you so angry??

I think you have hit the nail on the head Brian....I truly believe that THE SOURCE OF ALL THERE IS/THE CREATOR/THE HIGHER POWER/
UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS a.k.a. God...whatever name you want to give it....will never be found in a man made book. If the annointing is truly within us....that is the only place one would ever need to look to find it....just saying.

[hilgi]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Ps. Verna, why are you so angry??

It is human nature to be that way. When your whole belief system is about what you can do and how good you are, it really makes a person feel good. Just think about how you feel after some of your major accomplishments, it is a great feeling. I imagine when you think that your salvation is all about what you can do and you actually get to the point where you think you are perfect, it must feel great.

Then when people disagree with you they are disagreeing with your human feelings and it gets you upset fast. What if you painted a great painting and someone told you your technique is wrong, you would be angry. Same thing here.

Legalism is a very human centered all about ME belief system; it really strokes a person’s emotions.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

This is a lie from the pit of hell.


YOUR OWN!!!! Stop trying to steal Jesus' obedience, and instead get your own! Walk as He walked!!! Do as He did!!! And people are not righteous Ironmaw, it is the righteousness OF CHRIST! that is imputed INTO! one who walks as Christ walked...in OBEDIENCE!


BUT YOU JUST! SAID ABOVE: (AND I QUOTE!!!) "How many people will be made righteous by the obedience of Christ? The same amount of people who were made sinners by the obedience of Adam. That is to say, all people." You are so confused Ironmaw...you have nowhere to go from here, everyone can see you speak from both side of your mouth...God's truth is not to be found in your words.


Nope! It is not! No it is not! It is YOUR! responsibility to act accordingly to the will of God for your OWN! life! Not Christ's!

Nope, I am not saying any such of a thing! Your misunderstanding of the truth of God's Word leaves you without a clue of what I am saying. The truth is veiled from you Ironmaw.


For the saint...for the believing, faithful to God's Word, obedient saint. Not for the willfull sinner who dies in their sin.








No I do not.

Verna, that is insane ... I cant believe you are teaching that the scriptures teach that it is not the obedience of Christ by which all are made righteous.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."


Here we see that because of the sin of one man, all people are born into sin. Did all people choose to be born in to sin? No ... I know i did not choose to be born at all ... But because of Adams disobedience, all people are born into sin, and not by any choice or fault of our own. Its Adams fault that sin entered into the world and its because of what Adam did that all people are born sinners.

And in the same regard, it is because of Christs obedience that the many will be made righteous. Not by our obedience, because all have fallen short of the glory of God. If you sin one time its over. It doesn't matter if you never sin again, you have failed and fall short and cannot save yourself no matter how good you are. You can be obedient for the rest of your life and you are still a trespasser and breaker of the law and you deserve to die. Your obedience counts for nothing where salvation is concerned. It is only by the perfect obedience of Christ who never sinned even once, that the many will be made righteous, and that is exactly what the scripture above teaches which you categorically deny with you words and actions.

Look at what paul wrote in Gal 5:5 ...


Gal 5:5
But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.



If we are already righteous, then why does Paul teach that by faith and through the spirit we now eagerly AWAIT the the righteousness for which we are now HOPING.

We are not yet righteous, but we wait for righteousness to come by faith and through the spirit. When will that righteousness come?


1Cr 15:49
Therefore as we have borne the image of the earthly, let us bear also the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot possess the kingdom of God: neither shall corruption possess incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again: but we shall not all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible: and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption; and this mortal must put on immortality. And when this mortal hath put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.



So now we are corruptible and mortal, and the corruptible can not posses incorruption. And flesh and blood cannot posess the kingdom of God. Are you still in the form of corruptible flesh and blood? Are you still mortal and susceptible to death? Yes ... But we are waiting for the day that we are changed and we put off mortality and corruption of this flesh and blood, and put on immortality and incoruption. This is the righteousness we eagerly await and hope for by faith and through the spirit. And only then will we be righteous of our selves, but for now we are only accounted as being righteous by faith, through the spirit of Christ, in the work of Christ on the cross. It is by his obedience that we will one day finally be changed and made immortal, and incorruptible, and righteous ...

You are teaching that is our responsibility to save ourselves by obeying the law ... That is anti-Christ, and anyone who seeks to be justified by the law is fallen from grace in Christ. And according to your words, that is what you have done. You have fallen from grace and seek to justify yourself by your own righteousness and obedience.

Nope, I am not saying any such of a thing! Your misunderstanding of the truth of God's Word leaves you without a clue of what I am saying. The truth is veiled from you Ironmaw.

For the saint...for the believing, faithful to God's Word, obedient saint. Not for the willfull sinner who dies in their sin.

You ARE saying such a thing. You are saying that the disobedience of Adam, which caused all people who will ever live to be born sinners, has a greater affect on humanity than the obedience of Christ. You are saying that the obedience of Christ and his work on the cross only effects those who are Christians, and what is more, who earned salvation by their own obedience to the law and their own righteousness.

Thus you are saying that the disobedience of Adam affects every person, but the obedience of Christ only effects a very few people, not even 10% of all people ... So you are teaching that the sin of Adam abounds to all people, but the grace of God in Christ only abounds so a small few people.

You are teaching that where grace abounds to only a few people, sin does much more abound to all people.



Peace ...

[scgraham]

Revelation 21
[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

You want to say, (quoting Romans 4:5) that faith without works is sufficient unto salvation...and then you want to say that obedience results in righteousness...which is it DRob4JC...?

That's right DRob4JC, obedience in Christ results in God's righteousness being imputed unto the one walking in this faith....only you do not correctly interpret the meaning of this verse you quote: Romans 4:5. Faith alone, indeed is absolutely credited with righteousness...and Romans 4:5, or 6 is not by any means stating that faith without obedience to God's will is sufficient. Faith without works is dead faith. We know this from Scripture itself. Romans 4:5 and 6 (as well as the entire Bible) simply states that God's righteousness in imputed to the one who, by faith in Jesus Christ, walks in this faith, in obedience to God, because he believes in God and His Word and walks in that faith...in His righteousness, God's righteousness, and not his own. This faith is a believing/obedient faith unto God and His will for his life...he, Abraham, walked in faith in God...believing and obeying Him...but all Romans 4:5 and 6 is stating is that is wasn't the obedience that God's counted unto Abraham as righteousness...but the initial faith Abraham had in God that caused him to follow Him and walk in His will for his life...obediently.

This is exactly what I strive to get you all to understand about why I keep God's Ten Commandments...especially the Fourth one, keeping the Sabbath holy...time and time again I am accused of obeying these Commandments because I think this is what will get me into heaven...people say to me all the time that I am self righteous...they say that I am legalistic...that I believe that keeping the Commandments of God will earn me my salvation...and nothing could be farther from the truth! I KNOW! I have no righteousness in me!...it is the Righteousness of God inputed unto me for beliving in Him enough to walk in this faith...obeying His commands and following His precepts...and understanding that I have my part of the covenant between Him and I to uphold...I walk in faith...believing that what He says and promises He will do! as in keeping His covenant with me if I do!

No matter how hard you try to turn the truth of God's Word into saying something that it does not say...(and I am not accusing you of doing this on purpose...I believe that you just do not interpret Scripture correctly...you do not understand correctly what is being said in these verses, and I am trying to show you the correct meaning is all)...you cannot, in any way, shape or form, come away from reading Scripture believing that God does not require of us obedience to His Word...to His commands...it will lead you to your death...in your sin, if you so believe that this is what God is saying...He is not! If you come away from reading Scripture believing through misinterpreting God's truth, that one can die in their sin, while at the same time simply believing in God, but not living and walking in believing/obedient faith, you are so mistaken...and I plead with you to test what you read by comparing Scripture with Scripture...comparing precepts with precepts...comparing line upon line...line upon line...comparing spiritual things with spiritual things...DRob4JC...always remember this one thing...it will help you greatly in your studies of God's Word...He NEVER! EVER! contradicts Himself...ever. This will help you in your understanding of His will for your life.

Agreeing with the views of the Jews, Paul first refers to the example of Abraham, in whom the Jews gloried as their most renowned forefather. Even though he was respected and exalted, he had nothing to boast in the presence of God...saved by grace, through faith, even as others. Not mentioning the years before his call, and all his failures in his obedience...and even his faith, it is expressly stated in Scripture that he did, indeed believe God, and it was counted to him for righteousness.

From this example we see that if any man could work the full measure required by the law, the reward must be reckoned as a debt, which was not the case of Abraham, seeing faith reckoned to him for righteousness.

When believers are justified by faith, their faith being counted for righteousness, their faith does not justify them as a part of their righteousness; but as the means of uniting them to Him who has chosen as the name whereby He shall be called, the Lord our Righteousness.

Pardoned people are the only blessed people.

Scripture clearly shows that Abraham was justified several years before his circumcision. It is, therefore, plain that this rite was not necessary in order to justification. It was a sign of the original corruption of human nature. And it was such a sign as was also an outward seal, appointed not only to confirm God's promises to him and to his seed, and their obligation to be the Lord's, but likewise to assure him of his being already a real partaker of the righteousness of faith. Thus Abraham was the spiritual forefather of all believers, who walked after the example of his obedient faith.

The seal of the Holy Spirit in our sanctification, making us new creatures, is the inward evidence of the righteousness of faith. Amen.

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
R

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by BudinAk

I don't believe that is what Verna is saying: that Christ "cannot save everyone". Because, obviously, He could.

However, not everyone is willing to be saved. Not everyone is willing to believe, to come to Christ by faith.

The bottem line is that yes, God has the power to save everyone, but not everyone will be saved, because some will refuse to believe and come to Christ, that they might be saved. It's not God's fault if some are not saved...


Bud

Belief is given by God...So if God does not give that belief...one cannot believe...It is not of him who wills or him who runs, but it is God who shows mercy...Christs words were for those that had ears to hear...which was a colloquialism meaning 'for who the message is meant for, let him understand'...This is why Paul says 'some of you might say why does He yet find fault, for who has resisted His will?'...Why would he say this?...why would a person ask that unless what Paul was saying was that God has in fact chosen those that He will save and has passed over the others...

[Richard1965]

[quote=Verna Perry;16010717]First of all, before I go any further, I want you to know Ironmaw, that I do not reply here for you...just the way God's Word gets twisted, torn apart, shreaded and defiled...it just rubs me like sandpaper...but I am in no way shocked or surprised at your inability to correctly comprehend/interpret God's truth.

This reply is for those out there who earnestly seek the heart of God's will for their lives, the truth...you go ahead and complete your mission on this earth Ironmaw...but I will set the record straight for those who really want to know the truth.

Let me begin by saying that Paul is specifically speaking to to the Church of God at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints! The testimony of Christ is confirmed within them...they are brethren!...It is these, the true, believing, faithful, obedient Christians who did not die in their sin, but lived a clean, blameless life in the righteousness of Christ whom will have their works judged at the Great White Throne of Judgement, and whatever they built upon the Foundation, the ONLY! Foundation - Jesus Christ, if it was anything other than anything that glorified God through Christ Jesus, it will burn!...and there will be judgement and their inheritance (rewards) will be lost forever, but they will still see their salvation.

As sure as I live and breath, anyone who dies in their sins, who did not receive Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior, and did not live their life in the Spirit of Christ...faithful and obedient to the commands of God, will stand naked and ashamed before our King and will not go to His right to be with Him for all eternity, they will be directed to His left...He never knew you...It is written!!! Thus saith the LORD God Almighty!

So!...now that we've cleared that up, let me clear this up as well...

Some build upon this Foundation gold, silver, and precious stones (v. 12), namely, those who receive and spread the pure truths of the gospel, who hold nothing but the truth as it is in Jesus, and preach nothing else. This is building well upon a good foundation, making all of apiece, when ministers not only depend upon Christ as the great prophet of the church, and take him for their guide and infallible teacher, but receive and spread the doctrines he taught, in their purity, without any corrupt mixtures, without adding or diminishing.

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Others build wood, hay, and stubble, on this foundation; that is, though they adhere to the foundation, they depart from the mind of Christ in many particulars, substitute their own fancies and inventions in the room of his doctrines and institutions, and build upon the good foundation what will not abide the test when the day of trial shall come, and the fire must make it manifest, as wood, hay, and stubble, will not bear the trial by fire, but must be consumed in it. There is a time coming when a discovery will be made of what men have built on this foundation: Every man's work shall be made manifest, shall be laid open to view, to his own view and that of others. Keep in mind...this judgement of works is for saints only...those who died in Christ Jesus...who lived a life in the will of the Father...faithful, believing, obedient Christians...brethren!


Now that we understand that you do not have the correct understanding of the passage above, this is absolutely i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-e. Literally.

[quote=Ironmaw]The best proof that if someone continues to sin until they die, and even if they only have works which are sinful and are like wood hay and stubble, they will be saved.

Uh....nope. That is a lie from the pit of hell.


All men are invited to come to God through this all-sufficient atonement, and by this new and living way. The gospel, when rightly understood and received, sets the heart against all sin, and stops the allowed practice of it; at the same time it gives blessed relief to the wounded consciences of those who have sinned.

Yes, Jesus is our Advocate, while here on earth, after we have received Jesus into our hearts, while we are growing, learning, and maturing into a true faithful, obedient, born-again Christian. Only then. Not after you die in your sins and you find yourself standing before Jesus our King and Righteous Judge...nope...no way. Your time to get right with God in an intimate relationship with Him has passed.

You need to understand that the Bible, God's Word, is speaking/teaching/warning believers. Understanding this will help you greatly in your understanding of Scripture.

God Bless you.

In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

The Great White Throne Judgement if for the Non-Believers...Chistians are Judged by Christ...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

Faith/obedience leads one to be imputed with the righteousness of Christ. Period.

Prove it out of scripture reverend Perry....