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Books don't spread hate, people do. It's people that take the Bible and use it for their own agenda that end up spreading hate. I agree a lot of the passages in the Bible are awful, but most people, Christian and non-Christian alike, have the common sense to ignore those passages these days. The choice not to ignore passages that condemn homosexuality is a personal choice, not something forced upon all Christians.
I imagine if there weren't a Bible (or Qur'an, or Torah), people would just find other reasons to spread hate. They would just come up with different arguments. In fact, there already are people who are homophobic for non-religious reasons. They often make arguments like "it goes against biology" or my personal favorite, "it's just wrong." So I imagine if the Bible were banned, we'd probably just have a lot more homophobes of non-religious variety.
I think we ought to target the real issue: homophobia.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-27-2010 at 02:22 PM..
Homosexuality has been around since the Old testament time of Sodom. There were sodomites with the Israelites wandering through the desert that were kept separate from the main camp and isolated. One account reported a "pestilence" broke out in the sodomite camp. God regards homosexuality as an abomination. That word isn't used to describe even murder. God really doesn't like homosexual behavior.
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Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
Books don't spread hate, people do. It's people that take the Bible and use it for their own agenda that end up spreading hate. I agree a lot of the passages in the Bible are awful, but most people, Christian and non-Christian alike, have the common sense to ignore those passages these days. The choice not to ignore passages that condemn homosexuality is a personal choice, not something forced upon all Christians.
I imagine if there weren't a Bible (or Qur'an, or Torah), people would just find other reasons to spread hate. They would just come up with different arguments. In fact, there already are people who are homophobic for non-religious reasons. They often make arguments like "it goes against biology" or my personal favorite, "it's just wrong." So I imagine if the Bible were banned, we'd probably just have a lot more homophobes of non-religious variety.
I think we ought to target the real issue: homophobia.
Alas, there is much disagreement among Christians about taking the Bible too literally. I would say the majority of us do not, but the ones who do make us all look a bit mindless.
This might be difficult to get into without insulting people.
From a Catholic perspective sex is about procreation, love, and the complementarity of the sexes. Homosexuality only has one of those.
I guess I would lean toward saying it is not so much that it is harmful per-se as it is sub-optimal. The homosexual does not really need to understand the opposite sex in an intimate way, I don't just mean sex by intimate, as such even if they may choose to do so. You could say the same of monastics I guess, but that's acceptable as a devotion to God not a lover. Also some monastics are in a metaphorical sense "married" to an opposite sex person. Homosexuality also is not strictly speaking necessary. The species could continue without it. So it could be deemed "sterile" in several senses. (In that you don't need to learn much outside your own sex and you don't reproduce) So presumably the homosexual can do more good by not acting on it and therefore that's what they should do.
Not that I think complete perfection for anyone is possible. I've certainly lusted after some guy, meaning a male, at times. I've accepted I have both same and opposite sex attractions. One however could be something the other just couldn't, even if I wanted it to. Although to be honest I've chosen not to do anything with either one.
Thomas, I can appreciate the idea that the purpose of marriage is to teach one how to love more selflessly. And while it may be true that the differences between men and women aid in that process, it does not follow that someone who is homosexual by nature would learn love better by never being involved in a relationship with someone of the same sex. Could you explain what brings you to that conclusion?
It is sin and gives the simblance to others that sin is ok, per Sodom and Gomorah. They lead others astray by their sinful indulgence. We must crucify self, it is in our nature to murder, should we abstain from murder?
Robin, you aren't answering my question, which is how is a committed homosexual relationship detrimental to those involved, or to society as a whole? Are you, therefore, of the opinion that God does indeed arbitrarily decide that some things (such as homosexuality) are a "sin", even though they are not inherently harmful?
OPs question is very interesting. If God made us in his image, and loves us all equally despite our differences, how does a "Christian" who rejects a gay person reconcile this?
Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, were made in God's image, which is holiness and righteousness. The rest of us, however, were not born in God's image, as were born in sin and iniquity. That's why Jesus said, "Ye must be born again". Don't ever let a preacher, minister, teacher nor priest tell you that we are all born in God's image; that's false teaching. If we were born in His image, then we would not need to be born again.
Therefore, a gay person, or any other sinner for that matter, must be made a new creation in Christ Jesus so that the old fallen nature is crucified; it's put to death.
2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Belief in chastity for homosexuals is not hatred. Belief in chastity for heterosexuals, for that matter, is not hatred. The Shakers believed everyone should be celibate. I really don't think that's because they hated people. The Shakers had some obsessive and apocalyptic tendencies, but that aside I think they did more good than harm. They invented many things, had good hygiene, and I think they loved each other in their way. (They still exist, but there's only like four to six of them) Maybe in modern thinking you only encourage a deprivation because you're hateful, but that doesn't mean modern thinking is correct. I think one can certainly discourage various pleasurable things without it being a sign of hate.
Um, without sex YOU WOULDN'T be here. Celibacy is actually very unnatural. The Jewish culture that Jesus belonged to was AGAINST celibacy. Judeism is a very EARTH oriented religion. about THIS life in THIS world. and PLEASURE is GOOD. PAIN is evil. You're turning a good into an evil and an evil into a good. Philosophers definition of evil is anything that causes pain and suffering. definition of good is things that lead to WELLBEING
Therefore, a gay person, or any other sinner for that matter, must be made a new creation in Christ Jesus so that the old fallen nature is crucified; it's put to death.
I became a born again Christian as a teenager. Yet I'm still gay as I'm still white and right handed. unchosen birth traits don't change when you become born again.
God makes them with natural relations (men \ women) Romans 1:27,
Matthew 19:4
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
Genesis 1:22
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.
They (not God) exchange natural for unnatural shameful lusts Roma
That's the PROBLEM. It's NOT TRUE> Thusly the existence of gay people DISPROVES your WOLDVIEW. I did NOT choose to be gay. I've always BEEN gay and can never NOT be gay. That's the FIRST HAND experience. (which trumps your opinions based on NO EVIDENCE). When you're proven wrong by first hand experience then it's time to MAN UP and REALIZE that at least PART of your worldview has been PROVEN INCORRECT>
I think you forget that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality and Christians live from Christs doctrines do they not? If you read the passages around this one, you will learn that if a girl has sex before marriage is perfectly normal for her to be stoned to death. Is that acceptable as well? or are you picking and choosing what you want from the Bible to fit your own agenda?
Jesus confirmed in Matthew 19:4 that marriage is between a man and a woman. 'And He answered and said, ''Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5] and said, 'FOR THIS CAUSE A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND SHALL CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE; AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? 6] Consequently they are no longer two, but one Flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.''
Homosexuallity it a sin before, during, and after the Mosaic law. As already stated, homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament, in 1 Cor 6:9 as being a sin . 'Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10] nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.'
1 Tim 1:9 'realizing the fact that law in not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10] and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11] according to the glorious gospel of the blessd God, with which I have been entrusted.'
Romans 1:24 'Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25] For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26] For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural (lesbianism), 27] and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men commiting indecent acts (homosexuality) and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. The people of Sodom were homosexuals as seen in Genesis 19:4-9.
The New Testament Scriptures are every bit as clear as the Old Testament about what God thinks of homosexuality.
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