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Old 09-29-2010, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
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Thanks, I am going to get started with this now . .
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:15 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 988,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The gift of tongues is a rich gift that is for the soul of the Children of God, and is great for a point of contact for all the gifts of the Holy Spirit...... The Lord anointed me with a unknown tongues which is the travailing Spirit tongues which is used for clearing darkness away and relaying messages in the Spirit. And can be used for building power for a Blood of Jesus hedge around believers in the church and other people prayers.....Glory to God....
Your description of your tongue is not written in scriptures. Your use of the tongue has not been taught to the early church to be used in that way.

The problem of your tongue is:

#1. It preaches another spirit to receive in order to get this tongue as in receiving the Holy Spirit again in order to get this tongue which goes against the Gospel of Christ: Ephesians 4:4-6 because there is only one hope of our calling and thus one baptism of the Holy Spirit & 1 Corinthians 12:13 where there is only one drink of the One Spirit and we are complete in Christ Colossians 2:5-10 where we are not leaky vessels so that we are filled, sealed, and thus saved. Matthew 9:17.

#2. That prayer goes against scriptures that you have to say anything because the Father knows before you even say it. Matthew 6:7-8

#3. The world has been doing that kind of tongues by seeking after familiar spirits so why would God have tongues come without interpretation when that same "unknown" tongue spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:2 is the same tongue throughout the chapter in needing interpretation because it is unfruitful without it and even the person speaking the tongue lacks understanding so that is why Paul said to pray that interpretation comes because tongues is a language of other men's lips. It always was since the day of Pentecost, and always will be.

#4. In 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, divers kinds of tongues is followed by the interpretation of those tongues. Tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift as all manifestations of the Spirit was given to profit the body withal.

#5. If you disagree with this reproof of your tongue, you are advocating that one can receive the Holy Spirit again, giving another hope of the call for believers which is false: and you are advocating that God mimicks the devil's tongues which was already in the world before Christ came. God does not bury His gifts like a man would bury his talent. Tongues has to come with interpretation to edify the body of Christ.

#6. It has been prophesied that signs and wonders will come if possible, to deceive the very elect. Tongues without interpretation is the perfect description of a stranger's voice gained by climbing up another way ( John 10:1-9) as in after the Holy Spirit ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4) when the only way to approach God the Father is by way of the Son: John 14:6, 13-14

#7. The defense of the Gospel and the faith rests.

Last edited by Enow; 09-30-2010 at 08:44 AM..
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,803 posts, read 28,294,177 times
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If the use of tongues causes fear or confusion, ... [sigh]

Fear comes from our adversary.

Confusion comes from our adversary.

God has an adversary. We are sons of God, we are members of His Household; His adversary is our adversary. That adversary makes attacks on the household everyday and has for a long time. There is a spiritual battle going on.

Fear has a source, confusion has a source; neither come from God.

If the manner that tongues are used bring fear or confusion, then the manner they are being used is being encouraged by our adversary.

In such a circumstance it may well be better for people to simply read the Bible rather than to add confusion from our adversary into the process.

Tongues can be real, they can be authentic. However decent and in order, one by one, and with each person who believes to speak in a tongue in public also believing to be given the interpretation of that tongue. It is only by hearing the Word of God in our language that we may all be comforted and exhorted, built up in truth.

We were given the gift of holy spirit, that gift has manifestations [or proofs in the senses realm] that it exists. The manifestations of the Spirit are like a cluster, they do not operate so much singularly. None of them are stand alone. Once given the gift of holy spirit; it is the power that energizes all of the manifestations. You only have to study their usage and believe to put them into operation. The gift is freely given to man, complete with the manifestations so that man can profit withal.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
11,647 posts, read 4,395,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
My son speaks in tongues I believe him
What other language does he speak?
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
1,388 posts, read 1,412,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Your description of your tongue is not written in scriptures. Your use of the tongue has not been taught to the early church to be used in that way.

The problem of your tongue is:

#1. It preaches another spirit to receive in order to get this tongue as in receiving the Holy Spirit again in order to get this tongue which goes against the Gospel of Christ: Ephesians 4:4-6 because there is only one hope of our calling and thus one baptism of the Holy Spirit & 1 Corinthians 12:13 where there is only one drink of the One Spirit and we are complete in Christ Colossians 2:5-10 where we are not leaky vessels so that we are filled, sealed, and thus saved. Matthew 9:17.

#2. That prayer goes against scriptures that you have to say anything because the Father knows before you even say it. Matthew 6:7-8

#3. The world has been doing that kind of tongues by seeking after familiar spirits so why would God have tongues come without interpretation when that same "unknown" tongue spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:2 is the same tongue throughout the chapter in needing interpretation because it is unfruitful without it and even the person speaking the tongue lacks understanding so that is why Paul said to pray that interpretation comes because tongues is a language of other men's lips. It always was since the day of Pentecost, and always will be.

#4. In 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, divers kinds of tongues is followed by the interpretation of those tongues. Tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift as all manifestations of the Spirit was given to profit the body withal.

#5. If you disagree with this reproof of your tongue, you are advocating that one can receive the Holy Spirit again, giving another hope of the call for believers which is false: and you are advocating that God mimicks the devil's tongues which was already in the world before Christ came. God does not bury His gifts like a man would bury his talent. Tongues has to come with interpretation to edify the body of Christ.

#6. It has been prophesied that signs and wonders will come if possible, to deceive the very elect. Tongues without interpretation is the perfect description of a stranger's voice gained by climbing up another way ( John 10:1-9) as in after the Holy Spirit ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4) when the only way to approach God the Father is by way of the Son: John 14:6, 13-14

#7. The defense of the Gospel and the faith rests.

ENOW . . what about people who have this gift of speaking in tongues. If they are praying for someone, whether by laying hands and praying over someone, or at home or driving, and they are speaking in tongues . . why does prayer . . in tongues need interpretation?

I know that tongues should not be used to teach, without an interpreter, but what about praying . . if one has this gift and desires to use it for praying, and prayer . . what is the biblical evidence against praying in tongues???????
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
1,388 posts, read 1,412,257 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
If the use of tongues causes fear or confusion, ... [sigh]

Fear comes from our adversary.

Confusion comes from our adversary.

God has an adversary. We are sons of God, we are members of His Household; His adversary is our adversary. That adversary makes attacks on the household everyday and has for a long time. There is a spiritual battle going on.

Fear has a source, confusion has a source; neither come from God.

If the manner that tongues are used bring fear or confusion, then the manner they are being used is being encouraged by our adversary.

In such a circumstance it may well be better for people to simply read the Bible rather than to add confusion from our adversary into the process.

Tongues can be real, they can be authentic. However decent and in order, one by one, and with each person who believes to speak in a tongue in public also believing to be given the interpretation of that tongue. It is only by hearing the Word of God in our language that we may all be comforted and exhorted, built up in truth.

We were given the gift of holy spirit, that gift has manifestations [or proofs in the senses realm] that it exists. The manifestations of the Spirit are like a cluster, they do not operate so much singularly. None of them are stand alone. Once given the gift of holy spirit; it is the power that energizes all of the manifestations. You only have to study their usage and believe to put them into operation. The gift is freely given to man, complete with the manifestations so that man can profit withal.
Forestbeekeeper:

Was it biblical for 3 women in the pews to join hands and pray together in tongues unbliblical . . . at the youth service?

What about the kids who came down to the altar, was it biblical or unbiblical for those elders of that church to pray for the kids, sometimes with english words, and going into tongues? Was that biblical?
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,803 posts, read 28,294,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Forestbeekeeper:

Was it biblical for 3 women in the pews to join hands and pray together in tongues unbliblical . . . at the youth service?
1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

:26 ... Let all things be done unto edifying.
:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course[one after the other]; and let [each] one interpret. :28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.



If a group of people are all SITs at the same time, new people will think your crazy. [verse 23].

In the church things are only to be done for the purpose of edifying each other [verse 26].

If anyone is going to SIT, let them do it one at a time, one after the other, and let each one who believes to do so interpret [verse 27].

But if none of them believe to interpret than none of them should SIT out loud, they should then stay quite and pray until they do believe to interpret. [verse 28] .



Quote:
... What about the kids who came down to the altar, was it biblical or unbiblical for those elders of that church to pray for the kids, sometimes with english words, and going into tongues? Was that biblical?
The Bible seems to be very clear that SIT in public is only to be done when followed immediately with it's interpretation. Otherwise it is for private prayer. [the Bible lists 13 uses or purposes for SIT]

If a person [preacher or not] wants to speak in English, and then shift into SIT, that is his business. He is doing it. God does not possess anyone.

But if it is not followed by an interpretation. Or if it causes confusion, then it is clearly wrong.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:07 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 988,073 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
ENOW . . what about people who have this gift of speaking in tongues. If they are praying for someone, whether by laying hands and praying over someone, or at home or driving, and they are speaking in tongues . . why does prayer . . in tongues need interpretation?
Because it is not a stand alone gift, meaning it was never meant to be a prayer language.

Quote:
I know that tongues should not be used to teach, without an interpreter, but what about praying . . if one has this gift and desires to use it for praying, and prayer . . what is the biblical evidence against praying in tongues???????
2 Timothy 2: 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

The heathens have been doing that kind of prayer language in the occult. If God would call them out of the occult, then God would not mimick their babbling by having tongues come without interpretation.

Matthew 6: 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

No one needs to be babbling a prayer to God. It is far better to know what you had asked for so that when God answers prayers, you will thank Him.

Be sure to use the King James Bible for this study. The NIV has it wrong and implies that the Holy Spirit actually makes direct interecessions by making sounds wheras the King James Bible says that the Holy Spirit makes indirect intercession by serving as a means by which Jesus Christ Whom is the One that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is the One making the intercessions in according to the will of God BECAUSE Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and man.

New International Version

Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Note the grammarical error in verse 27. How can the he that searches our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit BE "the Spirit" that makes this intercession? Note the King James Bible translations:

King James Bible

Romans 8: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

In verse 27, the interpretors maintained the correct pronoun of "he" in designating this as the third person seperate from us in searching our hearts and seperate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of.

In verse 26, the use of the term "itself" is given towards the Holy Spirit as signifying the Holy Spirit as the means by which this intercession is being made as it is being made without any sound uttered at all.

That is why Matthew 6:7-8 ties in with these verse because it proves how the Father knows before we ask in prayer.

Jesus Christ is the One that searches our hearts as He is the Word of God made flesh.

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.... 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So Jesus is the Word that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit within us so He can make intercessions for us BECAUSE He is the ONLY Mediator between God and man.

Implying that the Holy Spirit needs to say something to God the Father is redundant and vain for God to be doing: this is why.

Matthew 10: 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

So if the Holy Spirit speaks what He hears : then what need does God have for the Holy Spirit to pray in babbling tongues back to Himself? It is vanity and vainglorying when believers use prayer language as a means to "pull down stronghold" or "hide prayers from Satan" for the false reason so that he doesn't know what they are praying for.

Believers need no prayer language in praying to God. That is just a cop out for having tongues that comes with no interpretation.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
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Thanks Enow and Forestbeekeeper, I appreciate you both and your input on this.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:13 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,734,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Who believes that Speaking in Tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit (different from the fruits of the Spirit) and that the gifts of the Holy Spirit e.g. prophecy, tongues . . are still in operation today?
I do.
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