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Old 12-20-2010, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,452,340 times
Reputation: 216
Default God will achieve His desire to save everyone

Sooner or later God will get His desire.
He says I will do all my pleasure (desires).
His desires will get done because He Himself will do it.
That is what His plan for the ages of time is all about.

BIBLICAL CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

We all have character flaws on this earth.
But a time is coming when we all shall be perfect like Jesus.

The quality of a person's character has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that the truth remains the truth, no matter what the character is of the one who speaks it.

A love that saves everyone who needs saving from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will, is the kind of love that I LOVE to share.

God wills (desires if you like) that all mankind be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)

God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1:11)

As in Adam all are dying; thus also in Christ will all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)

"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the salvation of all mankind)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-20-2010 at 08:29 PM..

 
Old 12-20-2010, 08:40 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,056,165 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Sooner or later God will get His desire.
He says I will do all my pleasure (desires).
His desires will get done because He Himself will do it.
That is what His plan for the ages of time is all about.

BIBLICAL CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

We all have character flaws on this earth.
But a time is coming when we all shall be perfect like Jesus.

The quality of a person's character has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that the truth remains the truth, no matter what the character is of the one who speaks it.

A love that saves everyone who needs saving from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will, is the kind of love that I LOVE to share.

God wills (desires if you like) that all mankind be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)

God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1:11)

As in Adam all are dying; thus also in Christ will all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)

"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the salvation of all mankind)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Amen Roger!

I just got a little annoyed by Finn saying you are being unloving for what you are teaching while he teaches that most people deserve to be tortured for ever and that it is a good thing, that it is true justice.

I have many loved ones who have died whom Finn teaches are being tortured right now and that they deserve it and it is a good thing/true justice, and then he has the audacity to say that you are not loving?

Anyway, I really do appreciate your example ... God bless you my friend, keep up the Good fight!
 
Old 12-20-2010, 09:17 PM
 
309 posts, read 170,444 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Finn can say that he does not judge us, and that we are unloving and judgmental all he wants, the truth is we are supposed to judge a tree by their fruits, and he really does believe that we are false teachers and heretics, but he is unwilling to say as much because he knows that would make his own accusations against us for what we believe about him and those who teach and believe the way he does moot.
Yes, I think of these verses, every time I see Finn in a forum.

Mat 21:24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Mat 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Mat 21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
Mat 21:27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

I do see, in his round-about posts, that he is saying..."well if I say this, then they will say this.....and if I say that, then they will say this"...It is true that things will wax "worse and worse", for at least they could utter such a thing as "We cannot tell". Finn cant even bring his self to state that, its just round-about posts in hopes that people will forget what is being stated.

I did however read a thread which I think he started. Where he admits that sometimes these forums "bring out the worst" in him. This actually made my jaw drop (actually, everybody's in the threads jaw dropped) I think I even gave him a Rep for it.

I can even see that, just because he is 'third-wheel' reading us replying this things back and forth about him, he most likely seeing it as rude. It really should be done in a DM between us, but what does he think when he does it to others.

Im sorry, but when I got my spankings from my dad, if I turned my head around to him and said..."but where's the love dad?...Where's the love man?", then boy is that NEXT one gonna hurt. For it is OBVIOUS that I am bent over his knee, in the FIRST place, for a REASON. And my condiscending attitude aint gonna help me a bit.

I tell you, a debate forum is an 'arena'. If one gets struck in the battle, we wouldnt expect to see him running to the ref and saying...."hey...he is hitting me". No, we expect the one who CAME to the battle to do just that, BATTLE. Most of these forums we are in are a battle of doctrines. And you are right, I too, have admitted that I could be wrong. Fact is, if there is something I dont know about, I simply SHUT UP, and dont even jump in the arena. I sit in the bleechers and watch.

But, do not threat Ironmaw, they bring their treasures to us, they just dont like being told that they are holding mere rocks.


[SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
 
Old 12-20-2010, 09:35 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,056,165 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
Yes, I think of these verses, every time I see Finn in a forum.

Mat 21:24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Mat 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Mat 21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
Mat 21:27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

I do see, in his round-about posts, that he is saying..."well if I say this, then they will say this.....and if I say that, then they will say this"...It is true that things will wax "worse and worse", for at least they could utter such a thing as "We cannot tell". Finn cant even bring his self to state that, its just round-about posts in hopes that people will forget what is being stated.

I did however read a thread which I think he started. Where he admits that sometimes these forums "bring out the worst" in him. This actually made my jaw drop (actually, everybody's in the threads jaw dropped) I think I even gave him a Rep for it.

I can even see that, just because he is 'third-wheel' reading us replying this things back and forth about him, he most likely seeing it as rude. It really should be done in a DM between us, but what does he think when he does it to others.

Im sorry, but when I got my spankings from my dad, if I turned my head around to him and said..."but where's the love dad?...Where's the love man?", then boy is that NEXT one gonna hurt. For it is OBVIOUS that I am bent over his knee, in the FIRST place, for a REASON. And my condiscending attitude aint gonna help me a bit.

I tell you, a debate forum is an 'arena'. If one gets struck in the battle, we wouldnt expect to see him running to the ref and saying...."hey...he is hitting me". No, we expect the one who CAME to the battle to do just that, BATTLE. Most of these forums we are in are a battle of doctrines. And you are right, I too, have admitted that I could be wrong. Fact is, if there is something I dont know about, I simply SHUT UP, and dont even jump in the arena. I sit in the bleechers and watch.

But, do not threat Ironmaw, they bring their treasures to us, they just dont like being told that they are holding mere rocks.


Indeed ... One mans trash is another mans treasure, and out of the treasure of the heart the mouth speaks, for wherever a mans treasure is their his heart will be found also.


Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

Luke 12:34
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


And those who speak of eternal torture and everlasting death for most of humanity, speak it because it is the treasure of their heart. Though they deny it, their words and the things they teach are the evidence of what is in their hearts.

A good person knows in their heart that torture is wrong, and that the doctrines of eternal death and everlasting suffering are a mockery of the life and love of God in Christ for all people.

So with their words they think they draw close to God, pretending to love all people, while condemning most of humanity in their hearts that are in truth so very far from him. Even to the point that they teach that Christ fails to accomplish Gods desire to save all people, because the truth is in their hearts they do not desire that God should save all people, which is all the more evident in how they cannot even admit that it MIGHT be true that all people are/will be saved, even when confronted with all the evidences is the scriptures which testify that such IS the truth.
 
Old 12-21-2010, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,591 posts, read 11,042,191 times
Reputation: 4196
Isn't it great when you can sit back and simply watch your opponents prove your points for you?

Does Jesus desire His followers be humble and love their neighbors?

Yes, of course.

Did He get His desire yesterday? Sigh....no, He surely didn't...


God's permissive desire allows us to go against His teachings sometimes. Sometimes we get arrogant and unloving, althought we know it does not please Jesus. As long as we repent and come back to the right path it is ok.
 
Old 12-21-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,452,340 times
Reputation: 216
Exclamation I'm so glad there is an alternate point of view

So we have Christian fundamentalists like Finn, and Campbell, and twin.spin, who think it is a good thing for God to let non-Christians suffer forever. And they will do their very best to try to get people to "love" their god.

And we have millions of Muslims who think its a good thing for God to let non-Muslims suffer forever. And their teachers will do their very best to get people to "love" their god

I'm so glad I was able to learn about an alternate way of interpreting the scriptures. It quite literally saved my sanity and being rescued from the brink of suicide. There were many times in my earlier life that if I had a gun in my hand I would have killed myself over the extreme emotional distress that I experienced over my ability to love an ET god.

Now the great joy of my life is to let other people know there is an alternate way of interpreting the scriptures. And I have a lot of evidence that guiding people, on many forums, to this alternate way of interpreting the scriptures is helping many people in the same way that it helped me.

Due to "the luck of the draw," so to speak, millions of Muslims children are taught that non-Muslims are going to suffer forever in hell.
Quote from Islamic Belief about the Afterlife
"Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally. The suffering is both physical and spiritual."
The Afterlife in Islam - ReligionFacts

So most Muslims, (due to the luck of the draw so to speak), live out their life and die, clinging to their faithfulness to believing and obeying the Koran in the hope of salvation from “hell” in the afterlife.

And, due to "the luck of the draw," so to speak, millions of Christian children are taught that non-Christians are going to suffer forever in hell.

I think the whole dichotomy is ridiculously absurd!!!

Quite frankly, rather than believe in an ET god, I would rather live out my life trying to treat others the same way that I would like to be treated by them, and hope for the best in the afterlife, than to put my trust in a book that says that my Creator is going to sustain anyone alive in an inescapable state of everlasting suffering forever. I’m sure there are many agnostics who are able to do just that.

And that’s what I would have done too had I not been terrorized into trying to believe in ET by the threats of the people I counted on to tell me the truth, my parents, pastors, SS teachers, and my former ET friends.

So, once again, for the consideration of anyone who might be interested enough to check it out, here is that alternate way of interpreting the scriptures.

ET Calvinism, ET Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism
Which view of salvation is true?

Three good expositions specifically answering that question!
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
Absolute Assurance
WILL JESUS LET ANYONE SUFFER FOREVER? – J.Preston Eby
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM AND UNIVERSALISM - David Sulem
20. Calvinism, Arminianism and Universalism

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-21-2010 at 08:14 AM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old 12-21-2010, 08:24 AM
 
309 posts, read 170,444 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Isn't it great when you can sit back and simply watch your opponents prove your points for you?

Does Jesus desire His followers be humble and love their neighbors?

Yes, of course.

Did He get His desire yesterday? Sigh....no, He surely didn't...


God's permissive desire allows us to go against His teachings sometimes. Sometimes we get arrogant and unloving, althought we know it does not please Jesus. As long as we repent and come back to the right path it is ok.
Why Mr Sir Finn.....do you need "freewill" explained to you again?? Because it is obvious that you still do not understand. I dont mind explaining it to you thou.

Does Jesus desire to have Finn be a new creature?

Yes, of course.

Did He get His desire for the last (enter your age here)________? Sigh....no, He surely didn't YET.

Because it is OBVIOUS that is is NOT on Finn's time frame. (Hence, Finn is saying that Jesus Christ has NO IDEA what He is doing).

My Goodness. Your children must RUN YOUR OWN HOME Finn, because, by your OWN logic, you have absolutely NO CONTROL over them. IN YOUR OWN HOME, I might add.

Im sorry sir, but your God does not have the "Finn Carnality". The only way you can think of God is with your CARNAL mind. Your way of thinking only logically states that God has a Plan A.....whoops....and a Plan B....whoops...grrr...Plan C....(on thru the WHOLE alphabet).

What is your definition of "freewill" Finn. For it is obvious that you STILL dont know what it is when you type the word CHOOSE. You need to explain these verses away for your definition to be true then.

Quote:
Mike………..all that you have written has only proven that “man” has a “will”. No one is saying that man does NOT have a will. I am just saying that man’s will is NOT FREE of the manipulation of God’s will.

Read ALL (please read all of it) of this and tell me WHERE you find man’s FREEWILL in it.

Does man have a free will?

Here we have the Israelites NOT YET passing over the Jordan and God tells us what they are going to do there, BEFORE they do it. He even has Moses script a song as a witness to it.

Deu 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up (in the future?), and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Deu 31:21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, BEFORE I HAVE BROUGHT THEM INTO THE LAND which I sware.

Now come on, who can do this but God Himself. Actually, all that they do there MUST happen or else how can it come to be an “ensample” to us. He sets their future, because he can…..

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Man can only follow God because He ‘causes’ them to do so…

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause (Heb: make) you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jer 24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And if they do not see or hear his calling, it is because God “causes” them not to…

Rom. 11:7,8 God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear".

It is God who moves one to do this or that….

2 Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Here is a good example of someone who “thinks” he has something called a “free will”….

Mar 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
Mar 14:28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.
Mar 14:29 But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I.

This was written back in Zec 13:7 centuries before hand (therefore, it MUST come to pass). Now here is Jesus telling Peter that he WILL be offended. Of course Peter's "free will" (that he thinks he has) says he will not be offended. I am sure that Peter was sincere with his decision. But we all know Peter was offended and denied Jesus three times.

God works these things in people, the people have no control over it.

Jas 4:13-15 Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Jas 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? ………..
Jas 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

He knew you “intimately” before you were born and BEFORE your supposed ’free will’ even existed. He knows exactly what you are going to do during your life……

Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works [not anything WE do], but of him [God] that calleth
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth [our wills, free or otherwise], nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (According to you EVERYBODY can)
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

God makes and controls the honorable AND the dishonorable vessels. Even those who go against His own people….

Psa 105:24 And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.
Psa 105:25 He turned their heart (Egypt) to hate his people, to deal subtlely with his servants

Before Moses even went to lead God’s people out of Egypt, God stated this to Moses…

Exo 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

We read many times that God, Himself, hardened Pharaoh’s heart…

(See ...Exo 7:3, 9:12, 14:4, 14:17, 7:13-14, 7:22, 9:12, 9:35, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:8).

Not only that who hardened the heart of ALL OF THE EGYPTIANS to follow after the Israelites?

Exo 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

He didn’t just single Pharaoh out to do this, He does it to whomever He wishes

Joshua 11:20 For it was of the Lord to harden their [the Canaanites'] hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that He might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that He might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses.

God predestines ALL to His own will….

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God predestines according to his purpose of HIS will not our choices. He "worketh ALL things", including our wills.

Pro 20:24 Man's goings [Heb: steps] are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

But man thinks he understands his own way. Look at what else God does....

“The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.” (Prov. 16:1).

And does the "free will" of a certain man cause himself to be wicked? No, God does that too.

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Surely man has control to plan his own way, good or bad. No, God does that too.

Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

If we are created by the hands of God, then he controls everything we do.....

Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Here is Pilate's supposed free will speaking……

John 19:10 "Then said Pilate unto Him, Speak you not unto me? Know you not that I HAVE POWER to crucify you, and have POWER TO RELEASE YOU?

But where did this power really come from?

Jesus answered, You could have NO POWER AT ALL against Me, except it were GIVEN YOU from above…" (John 19:11).

Can we really do good, of our own selves?

Jer 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil."

Now here is something very VERY interesting. There is, in the Scriptures, an example where God tells us that He uses people to do His will, but that the one being used doesn’t know it, but rather thinks that he himself is doing the choosing and making the decisions and carrying out the intentions of his heart all according to his own presumed "free will", whereas God says that it is He, and not the person being used, Who is in total control of the one being used.

The bible continues to show this truth, and the Truth is saying that THIS is what people want (notice all the my's, me's, I's, Hence “free will”):


This is the King of Assyria talking….
Isa 10:13-14
......By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by the wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man: And my hand has found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathers eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.

We can plug in what ever we want here, like ...It is because of what I have done or because I chose Christ that am saved.)

What else can Truth continue to say though, but that THIS is what God does with what people Want:

Isa 10:10-12
As my hand has found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria; Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord has performed His whole work [by using the Assyrians] upon Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria and the glory of his high looks (vs 13-14) .

Because THIS is what the Truth of an all Sovereign God says:

Isa 10:15 Shall the ax [king of Assyria] boast itself [ I, Me, My] against him that hews therewith [God]? Or shall the saw [king of Assyria] magnify itself [ I, Me, My] against Him that saws with it [God] as if the rod [king of Assyria] should shake itself [ I, Me, My] against them that lift it up, or as if the staff [king of Assyria] should lift up itself [ I, Me, My], as if it were no wood

This wood, ax, etc., thinks it is something with free will and the power of self-determinism. Once again the King of Assyria doesn’t even believe in the God of Israel, so surely he took the spoils from Israel and tread them down of his own "free will". Did he?

Isaiah 10:5-8
“O Assyrian, the rod of Mine anger, and the staff in their hand is Mine indignation. I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of My wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. Howbeit HE means not so, neither does HIS heart [his ‘obscured’ heart—Ecc. 3:11] think so; but it is in HIS heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. For he says, Are not MY princes altogether kings?

Even man's supposed "free will" to do evil is in control of God...

Gen 50:19-20 “And Joseph said unto them [his brothers], Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it [the evil they had done] unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.”

What happens to a prophet who is deceived?

Eze 14:9....I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Well thats understanding, but who deceived the prophet, Satan or the Devil?

Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and …..

Did the ones against Jesus choose to be against him of their own free will?

Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Man thinks his plans are of his own mind and heart, but who's plan really prevails?

Proverbs 19:21
Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.

It is the flesh of man that says he has a "free will", how does flesh and Spirit get along?

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Do we repent of our own selves, or is our repentance given to us?

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Man cannot “free will” his way into being a “vessel of honor”, God leads him there. If one be given a “good spirit” then it is FROM THE LORD, but if one be given an “evil spirit” it “TOO” is FROM THE LORD.

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. (1Sa 16:16, 19:9)

Man must realize that God is Soveriegn, which means He has Control of EVERYTHING, even our own wills. Man cannot choose to save himself. Salvation has already been bought since the foundation of the world. You must acknowledge WHAT YOU are, which is a sinner. The day that you see yourself as a worse sinner then Hitler himself…….

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF.

….is the day you will become closer to God, for your reward is the same. To hold onto one’s supposed “free will” is to remain blind to the truth of WHO is actually in control of ALL things, and He will give you this delusion for a time. But again, remember, it is a delusion. You must come to know what God HIMSELF compares to YOU. You are an AX and He swings YOU. You are His ROD, He uses YOU. You are His STAFF, His CLAY, His POT. None of these things in God’s eyes has a ’freewill’ to guild ITSELF. Do NOT question the POTTER. Man did NOT till the ground FIRST, if He had not tilled FIRST, you would NOT BE. You WILL do what God purposes for you to do. It is an illusion that you hold onto. “Every good thing comes from above”, so why take credit for the GOOD you do, when the GLORY should go to HIM. Man does have a WILL sir, and it is a WILL TO SIN, and none other. The only GOOD will is God’s and whatever good is done by Man has came from God so that man cannot correctly boast (of his own righteous will). If believing is GOOD, than He gave it to you. Every man is a TABERNACLE, and all have a MERCY SEAT. If it is empty (deny thyself, die daily) HE WILL SIT!! If ONE sits there on HIS throne, in His purposed time He will destroy him, but nevertheless HE WILL SIT IN HIS TABERNACLE!! Know this sir, you cannot thwart God’s will.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mike……. You have not addressed not one scripture I have posted. You would find yourself hard-pressed to try to explain them away. You keep quoting this “He who believes in the Son has eternal life…” doctrine and you don’t even know what it means. If you keep insisting on thinking about this in such a “carnal” nature, then ask yourself some serious questions then. We will look at this “carnally” then. Your doctrine leaves a plethora of humanity unspoken for. Millions of babies have died NOT knowing WHO Christ is, much less BELIEVING in Him. At that time, when Paul preached, there had to be MILLIONS of people that had “died” NOT been presented with the Gospel. What of them?? My 23 year old son is Down-Syndrome (spelling??) and is totally incapable of believing in the Cross of Christ, much less knowing what He did for him. What of him?? There are MILLIONS rite NOW who haven’t even eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. One ‘experiences’ this Fruit WHILE living there life.

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

This “evil” that so many think is attributed to the SATAN of their life is given to men BY GOD to HUMBLE him by it.

Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore (Heb: evil) travail hath GOD GIVEN to the sons of man to be exercised (Gk: abase, humble) therewith.

Everyone who matures past the “child” of life MUST eat the fruit. So many see it as a BAD thing that Eve ate of the fruit. If she had NOT eaten of it, how pray tell would she then have the knowledge of what GOOD was, much less EVIL.

One must stop thinking that all the “If thou does this then….or…if thou does that then….”, utterances of God to mean that He is giving Man a choice, and start thinking that GOD is wanting MAN to know WHAT he (man) is, which is a SINNER. God gave the Israelites these “If thou….” warnings and told Moses WHAT they would follow BEFORE they followed it, and some weren’t even born yet. Pharaoh was given the same “If thou….”, warnings and GOD HIMSELF hardened the Pharaoh to go against them. If one is to keep thinking of these things with such a “carnal” mind, one must then come to the conclusion that the ALL MIGHTY GOD did not actually KNOW where Adam was when he ask the question “…..Where art thou?”

Think about it, it would NOT be so easy for God to do so if they were not ALL sinners (Do not the scripts say that “All have sinned”). This is why ALL have been seen by God as NOT believing, so that He can have mercy on ALL.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (Israel's) unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The thing that most, who think like you, do not see is that YOU obtained mercy for their (Israel’s) very UNBELIEF. And you “in times past have NOT believed”. So what better way to bring them ALL into unbelief so he can have MERCY on ALL of them (and for one to bring up such claims as in, but it only states “they MAY obtain mercy” and God “MIGHT have mercy”, fails to see that these words MAY and MIGHT were not even penned in the original.). They ALL will have mercy. The salvation of an UNBELIEVING Israel is a mystery that you do not understand as of yet, for the “milk” you drink will not reveal it.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (but alas, YOU think you have found it)

You must understand that one cannot BELIEVE in God unless He brings them to belief, so if one be NOT believing, it is God who blinds them so. Satan and God are NOT in some constant struggle as some may think, who do you think God sends to do this Evil work? For Satan nor man can do NOTHING without God’s permission. Was it not God who GAVE Satan power over all that Job had??

Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD

It begs to question here of just "WHO" the hand of God is. And was it not God who “moved” David to number Israel??

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he [the Lord] moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. (any study of Hebrew and LXX here will show that this is talking of God doing the moving)


And who did He send to do it??

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Was not God responsible for the “evil spirit” that was between Abimelech and Shechem??

Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

If one is blinded because they BELIEVE in a lie, then who is responsible for that LIE being told by a “false prophet”??

1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a [lying] spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he [GOD] said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. (also II Chron. 18:21-22)

Man’s own ‘unawares’ are guided by God alone. Sampson’s own parents new that it was “unlawful” to take a wife of the Philistines (Ex. 34:12 & 16). But WHO moved Sampson to do such a thing??

Jdg 14:4 But his father and his mother knew not that it was of the LORD, that he sought an occasion against the Philistines: for at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel. (the “it” is what Samson was doing).

And what better way to accomplish this then to just allow man to be WHAT he is (sinner), to do what he does best, which is follow the flesh.

Jdg 14:3....Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well.

Man is nothing more than a “sinner”, he does NO good apart from God moving him to do so. He simply does what he is created to do which is SIN. One cannot BELIEVE unless guided to believe.
Just throw all these verses on the "back-burner" Finn. Along with all the other ones you cannot explain. It is OK that you do not know what they mean sir.

Joe
 
Old 12-21-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,591 posts, read 11,042,191 times
Reputation: 4196
UR logic:

Jesus wants Irommaw and Joeallcon to be humble love their neighbors, but just not yet .

Maybe tomorrow .... maybe next week, or next year, or ten years from now but until then, they'll go against God's desire and blame it on God Himself. How convenient.

No, He wants all His followers to be humble and loving TODAY, and He desired you to be humble YESTERDAY, but sometimes people choose not to.
 
Old 12-21-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,452,340 times
Reputation: 216
Lightbulb Truth remains truth no matter what

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
UR logic:

Jesus wants Irommaw and Joeallcon to be humble love their neighbors, but just not yet .

Maybe tomorrow .... maybe next week, or next year, or ten years from now but until then, they'll go against God's desire and blame it on God Himself. How convenient.

No, He wants all His followers to be humble and loving TODAY, and He desired you to be humble YESTERDAY, but sometimes people choose not to.
A person's behavior has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not UR is the truth.

TRUTH REMAINS TRUTH NO MATTER WHAT

So, once again, for the consideration of anyone who might be interested enough to check it out, here is an alternate way of interpreting the scriptures.

ET Calvinism, ET Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism
Which view of salvation is true?

Three good expositions specifically answering that question!
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
Absolute Assurance
WILL JESUS LET ANYONE SUFFER FOREVER? – J. Preston Eby
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM AND UNIVERSALISM - David Sulem
20. Calvinism, Arminianism and Universalism

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-21-2010 at 10:20 AM.. Reason: change
 
Old 12-21-2010, 10:27 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,056,165 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
UR logic:

Jesus wants Irommaw and Joeallcon to be humble love their neighbors, but just not yet .

Maybe tomorrow .... maybe next week, or next year, or ten years from now but until then, they'll go against God's desire and blame it on God Himself. How convenient.

No, He wants all His followers to be humble and loving TODAY, and He desired you to be humble YESTERDAY, but sometimes people choose not to.
LOL, this is what you resort to when you have no argument. You remind of my 6 year old nephew. Its cute ...
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