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Old 12-21-2010, 12:34 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,015,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Wow.
Wow indeed ... I deny your false devil "God" of everlasting pain and suffering. I denounce your false demon "God" of everlasting torture and death. And i deny and denounce your false religion of infinite violence and hate.

Your false demon "God" of violence and hate and eternal evil is dead.

WOW indeed ...

 
Old 12-21-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
55,269 posts, read 29,727,560 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Wow indeed ... I deny your false devil "God" of everlasting pain and suffering. I denounce your false demon "God" of everlasting torture and death. And i deny and denounce your false religion of infinite violence and hate.

Your false demon "God" of violence and hate and eternal evil is dead.
Again, WOW!!
 
Old 12-21-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,137 posts, read 2,657,761 times
Reputation: 240
Exclamation Choosing what reflect our true character

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Wow indeed ... I deny your false devil "God" of everlasting pain and suffering. I denounce your false demon "God" of everlasting torture and death. And i deny and denounce your false religion of infinite violence and hate.

Your false demon "God" of violence and hate and eternal evil is dead.

WOW indeed ...
AMEN Ironmaw!!

CHOOSING WHAT REFLECTS OUR TRUE CHARACTER

So there is a choice, not a "free" choice, but a choice that demonstrates what we are really like.

We can search out and read expositions that try to justify God letting anyone suffer forever.

Or, instead, we can read expositions like the following that show why some of us do not see an ET God in the Bible.

IMO, our "will" will choose the one that best reflects our true character.

ET Calvinism, ET Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism
Which view of salvation is true?

Three good expositions specifically answering that question!
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
Absolute Assurance
WILL JESUS LET ANYONE SUFFER FOREVER? – J. Preston Eby
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM AND UNIVERSALISM - David Sulem
20. Calvinism, Arminianism and Universalism

POST SCRIPT: Offering another point of view is what I am all about.
Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year breakdown.
On the other hand, neither would I be motivated to guide others to a different point of view about what the Bible teaches.
So it has turned out good that I suffered that breakdown since I have been able to help many others who have suffered for the same reasons that I suffered.

Why not check out the links and see why some of us see an infinitely different God in the Bible than a god who would let anyone suffer forever?

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-21-2010 at 01:08 PM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old 12-21-2010, 02:47 PM
 
309 posts, read 287,034 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
UR logic:

Jesus wants Irommaw and Joeallcon to be humble love their neighbors, but just not yet .

Maybe tomorrow .... maybe next week, or next year, or ten years from now but until then, they'll go against God's desire and blame it on God Himself. How convenient.

No, He wants all His followers to be humble and loving TODAY, and He desired you to be humble YESTERDAY, but sometimes people choose not to.
God’s Logic:

God will save all mankind….Just not yet.

Not the Pharoah (for God hardened his heart)….not after the first Plague (for God hardened his heart) ….not after the NEXT Plague day (for God hardened his heart)….…..not after the NEXT Plague day after THAT (for God hardened his heart)…..yep…you are getting the picture now Finn. You say...

Quote:
No, He wants all His followers to be humble and loving TODAY,....
Yep….but as explained to you before….many MANY times….that HE knows when we wont, BEFORE He even gives you this CHOICE…Remember “I TOLD YOU SO” Deu 31:16,21.

Quote:
...and He desired you to be humble YESTERDAY, but sometimes people choose not to
Yep….but as explained to you before….many MANY times….that HE knows when we wont, BEFORE He even gives you this CHOICE…Remember “I TOLD YOU SO” Deu 31:16,21.

And all this is because we STILL (still a little carnal) needs to be BURNT out of us. We STILL have something to LEARN. Sir Finn…this process is explained very BEAUTIFULLY in the following words.

Quote:
Life is a learning experience and maybe the purpose of this board is to teach us certain things. See, it is easier to be humble and respectful when you are face to face with people, while here at the discussion board the bar is lower. However, I don't think God sees it that way. He does not care where we are when we are disrespectful, be it here or face to face with people.

Food for thought.
Indeed….And I believe EVERY word of it. Most likely more then you do. I am going to tell you how BEAUTIFUL these words are to ones such as myself.

Quote:
“Life is a learning experience and maybe the purpose of this board is to teach us certain things.”
Yes, we are to LEARN. And there is no “maybe” about it, this board (and most things) is to TEACH us things.

Quote:
“See, it is easier to be humble and respectful when you are face to face with people, while here at the discussion board the bar is lower.”
Look at this statement sir. Who is NOT in this statement? This statement can be verbally said by ALL CARNAL beings (including, You, Me, Ironmaw, Rodger, Legoman, etc.). GOD is NOT in this statement. This is PURELY man SEEING HIMSELF. (And BTW, 'face to face' on this forum would be equivelant to a 'Direct Message', has this not been tried?)

Quote:
“However, I don't think God sees it that way. He does not care where we are when we are disrespectful, be it here or face to face with people.”
Now look at these statements. And Who is NOT in these statements? You make a TOTAL distinction here between what CARNAL man thinks and does, and what GOD thinks and does. In one sentence you tell us what YOU and EVERY carnal being does, and then you throw in this “However..” and follow it up with “I don’t THINK God sees it that way”. Well, you are 100% correct. This, my dear friend, is man’s DOING and man’s THINKING. So WHY, prey-tell, are you and I still being disrespectful here then.

As I have said many times, “Freewill can NOT answer a question of WHY? For to answer it would give us the CAUSE”. And, freewill, by definition, can NOT have a CAUSE. So let us answer the question Finn. “Why are you (and I) still disrespectful then??? We are not left to guess. YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER. For here are those BEAUTIFUL words again.

Quote:
“I am looking in the mirror since I too am guilty of being less than a good servant at times. I must admit that it is often this board which brings the bad out in me. Maybe this if God's way of teaching me patience. Could be, could be....”
There is your CAUSE sir. There is what “causes” you and I to act in certain ways. This is what BRINGS about the way we are acting. For, it is TRUTH, that you and I….

Quote:
MUST admit that it is often this board which brings the bad out in me.”
Once again, I will tell you how BEAUTIFUL and TELLING these words are to me. You state that it brings the BAD out of you. Well, just the statement alone does not give us admittance sir, the full circle of this admittance is for you to POINT out in certain threads on this BOARD where you ADMIT you were being BAD (p.s. you don’t really have to do this, I am just stating it to prove my illustration…ok). The FACT is in the one statement you BLOW away free will, because you obviously blame the BOARD for CAUSING the BAD to come out of you. There are three things here Finn..
  • The BOARD (that is to say, the disrespectfulness you see in it)
  • The bad IN you
  • The YOU
Now, if you are going to BLAME the board for ‘causing’ you to act bad. Then WHO or WHAT, pray-tell, are you going to blame or CREDIT for ‘causing’ you to act GOOD??? My point is simple here:
  • If you place blame on the BAD that “you are doing” on SOMETHING else besides YOURSELF, then….
  • Why do not give the CREDIT for the GOOD that “you are doing” on SOMETHING (or someone) else, besides YOURSELF.
You admit that there is something that “causes” you to do badly, but you TOTALLY deny that there something that would “cause” you to do GOOD. Freewill theology blames the PERSON and NOT THE CAUSE. This is why I always say that “Man, left to HIMSELF, will ALWAYS choose badly”. You have eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil sir, therefore, you MUST learn BOTH, and God will BRING this about by laying these CAUSES before you. And after all this, you have an eye to see this…

Quote:
“Maybe this if God's way of teaching me patience. Could be, could be....”
Once again, BEAUTIFUL words. I must admit that I actually cried when I read these words. I cried because of that nagging word “Maybe”. Once again, there is NO MAYBE about it. Why do you say “maybe” here, and then follow up with the doubtful words of “Could be, could be…”. Dear Finn….He does love you THAT much. Only an “EYE” mixed with CARNAL and SPIRIT would write the words….”maybe..or..could be”. If we get rid of the CARNAL out of this than the SPRITUAL eyes sees that it….

…IS..”GOD’S WAY OF TEACHING ME PATIENCE.”

After much debate with you Finn, I can see that you and I are “the LAST word Fellows”. We both want the LAST JAB at the other. We both want to KNOCK OUT someone with the forming of our words. Those BEAUTIFUL words again say….

Quote:
Yes, in the "heat of the battle" we tend to get passionate about being right and winning the debate as opposed to being passionate about edifying others. It's not easy being human.
Once again, herein lies that CAUSE of what we are doing. The CAUSE is of wanting to be “right” and “win”. We WANT these things, therefore we ACT to get them. And once again it is given to us the GREAT CAUSE of why we ALL act out this way.

Quote:
“It's not easy being human.”
So true….SO TRUE. Again, GOD is NOT in this statement, it is all MAN. To be human is to be CARNAL. This is why there is the TOTAL POLAR OPPOSITES in that Fruit we eat of,….”good and evil”. There is no 'in between', there is no ‘grey area’, there is no 'REASONING' between the two, there is nothing more then HATRED between these poles. And God in all of His wisdom put BOTH of them in ONE TREE to be eaten by ONE MAN (you, me), so that we may LEARN. It is so true….it is NOT EASY.

I have noticed a peculiar thing about a certain person on these forums (Trettep…or Paul, I think). He is what I would call a “discerner”. He can most likely go thru everybody’s (yours, mine, everyone’s) written replies and highlight WHO (the FLESH or the SPIRIT) is actually SPEAKING and at what time in the writing. He most likely knows this, but does not show it. For I see this gift in all that he writes, but he holds back, for it is not always ‘expedient’ for him to manifest it. He has manifested it to me once, and I thank him for it. I too, have been given the ‘glimpse’ of this with you Finn.

You do very well at pointing fingers sir. We all do. As I cannot discern at all times of what (flesh/Spirit) is saying in all that you say, I can say this for a FACT.

“These B…E…A…U…T…I…F…U…L words that I have been quoting, are brought about by none other then the Spirit of JESUS CHRIST Himself.”

Just go LOOK at them.

Good servants and wicked servants

And SEE how it EDIFIED the WHOLE THREAD, how they BUILT a foundation of understanding and LOVE between those that could be construed as ENEMIES.

The person who wrote these words where at a GREAT CALM within their self. The CALM comes between STORMS. I may have been ONE of those storms my friend, I do not know. Something was SUPPRESSED with IN this person for its mouth to speak those words. This PERSON saw something UGLY when looking IN HIMSELF. For those BEAUTIFUL words again say….

Quote:
Just about everyone here, myself included, is guilty of being less than a good servant in this regard, so maybe we need to look in the mirror and rate ourselves as opposed to rating others.
True….true, my friend. So tell me then, WHO is speaking these words then? WHO is the CALM inside? WHO brought the storm about (by good or evil) so that you might LEARN? WHO is teaching you?

Indeed…WHO? Because it is THIS MAN that I LOVE. It is THIS MAN that speaks the words of the SPIRIT? It was HE who brought the CALM between the ENEMIES? Yes…

It is THIS MAN, that “CAUSED” these GOOD words to be SPOKEN?

So WITHOUT him, what is left to be SPOKEN but things that defiles. It is true as you say…”EVERONE….is GUILTY”. So indeed, let us look upon ourselves. We must be BROUGHT to the mirror first. And it is HE who brings us there.

How is HATRED to be destroyed by LOVE, unless it is first MANIFESTED?

In this respect, I can discern the HEAD or the OTHER MIND that was speaking here. I can discern the Saul from the Paul. One speaks HATRED, the other speaks LOVE. Therefore, if I love the HEAD, then I love the BODY (you) also. If He be in YOU sir, can HE not be in us also? Can you not, NOW, answer your own questions of “WHY we are acting this way?” by yourself. Can you not, NOW, see “WHY we can be rude, and mean?” Can we not use the same excuse that you do?

This MIRROR shows EVERYTHING, every scar, every imperfection. Who are you looking at? This SPIRIT says to “rate ourselves”, and indeed this is true, but how else is one to MEASURE one’s self, unless it be by the Scale of GOOD and EVIL. And how else are we to do this unless we are EXPERIENCE this “scale”. Beautiful words…..

SUCH BEAUTIFUL WORDS!!!!

I could write BOOKS on them. Sir Finn….Can you not see ADAM in the mirror? I see him too, but this wretched man did NOT SPEAK these BEAUTIFUL WORDS. So again, I ask….

WHO SPOKE THESE WORDS??

Indeed, you are measuring me by what comes out of my MOUTH and I (and others) am doing the same to you in other threads, but to THIS MAN, what are we to say….for He has EVERYTHING and EVERY AVENUE covered in His thinking.

I do LOVE YOU FINN, I know it is hard to believe sometimes, but I do. I know I can say bad things and form my words in hurtful manners. Why…you ask? If I may speak plainly as a MAN here, then I will tell you….

Be-CAUSE you tick me off.
Be-CAUSE you can be condescending.
Be-CAUSE you can be arrogant.

Now WHO do you think is speaking there…eh??? You look in that mirror and you see ME. You are in this BOARD as much as I am. Again, I can say sorry, many times to you. I am SORRY. I really do TRY to be nice to you, but the only explanation I have for you, when you ask such things as “Why are you not being HUMBLE?” or “Why are you not being RESPECTFUL?” has already been SPOKEN by a very understanding ONE, who says…..

Quote:
I MUST admit that it is often this board which brings (CAUSES) the bad out in me. [eph. Joe's]
God controls EVERYTHING. So if He is teaching you PATIENCE, HUMILITY, and RESPECTFULNESS, by way of this BOARD. Can He NOT do the SAME to US?? If you can claim to be PUSHED to act a certain way, then are WE any different? Do you not see that YOU PUSH as bad as WE PUSH? If God can USE me to manifest something in YOU that needs to be KNOWN and destroyed, can He not USE YOU to manifest something in US for the same purpose??

I hope this explains our position, and WHY man does what he does.
Blessings
Joe
 
Old 12-21-2010, 03:16 PM
 
7,773 posts, read 10,198,156 times
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