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Yes it is sensitive, but that question is asked alot by universalists. As a matter of fact, this, from what I and many others that have researched the UR movement, beieve this is the catalyst as to when a person accepts thre UR doctrine.
You have posted that theory before, but for me it was kind of opposite. Anyone who had died who I had been fairly close to was a Christian, and I just tried not to think too much about the people who probably weren't because we weren't close. That's all you can do when you believe in ET is try not to think about it.
My son passed away when he was a teenager. He loved the Lord and was strong in faith. Several people came to know the Lord because of him. When I was pregnant with him the thought of my baby possibly going to hell someday overwhelmed me so I prayed, "Whatever has to happen in his life, please just make sure he spends eternity in heaven with you."
So, when he passed away I had sort of a vested interest in the hell doctrine. It gave me a reason and purpose for his death. He helped prevent some people from going to hell, and because of my prayers I thought maybe his disease was part of the "whatever it takes" I prayed for.
Shortly after he died, God began to open my heart and eyes to the truth of his grace and mercy (after a strong feeling of love and grief over total strangers who died in the tsunami). Since I became a believer that He will save all mankind, it makes it a little more difficult to find purpose in my son's death (but that's ok!) That prayer I prayed before he was born - nullified. The people who came to know God - well... I'm glad they have a relationship with God, but my son didn't help them to avoid burning for eternity.
Since you have mentioned that before, you need to know that your theory does not apply to me and many others. Many came to realize it when they felt love in their hearts for all mankind, not a fear of their relatives burning in hell.
He never said he was going to save all mankind from start to finish, or even in the present reality of the theology itself. 1 Tim 2:4 (as it is continuously quoted, whether directly or indirectly) is not a pre-requisite for that theology. It has nothing to do with it to say the least. However, it looks as if your prayer was indeed answered.
I am curious of your stance......would you like the Bible to explain to you what the heavens and earth means? It is right there...in Gen 1 and 2.
There are many other places as well.....and like I said, none of which denotes a shiny new planet and everyone is running around holding hands, singing kumbaya.
He never said he was going to save all mankind from start to finish, or even in the present reality of the theology itself. 1 Tim 2:4 (as it is continuously quoted, whether directly or indirectly) is not a pre-requisite for that theology. It has nothing to do with it to say the least. However, it looks as if your prayer was indeed answered.
The bible shows this from the OT, to the glad tidings of great joy for all people, to Jesus telling us to love our enemies, to death being swallowed up in victory! It's not just 1 Timothy 2:4.
The absolute insanity of this belief is incomprehensible to me. How can any sane person love a being who blackmails them to love Him and His Son OR ELSE???!!??? . . . and exhibits favoritism only to those who stroke His ego and do His wishes. When will we outgrow this idiocy?
blackmail? You are way off dear Mystic
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
You wrote ...
Or conversely, it is difficult for people to listen to what God is telling them in their hearts about who he really is(i.e. the savior of all people), and learn to trust in that and to study the scriptures for themselves instead of trusting on the traditional teachings that they have been programmed to believe about what the scriptures actually teach.
God tells me you are wrong in His Bible.
Remember, I threw out the futurist and shiny new planet semantics, so you are preaching to the choir about being programmed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Are you saying that those who believe in UR whose faith is in Jesus has their Savior , but happen to believe he's also Savior of All too , are not submitting to His will in not believing in eternal torment ?
I don't believe ET is a reality now. I believe it was covenantal. Same with the second death....covenantal. The topic of the unsaved post mortem doesn't really exist in the Bible in great detail. But the Bible is clear, that without Christ, whether breathing or not, you are dead.
Quote:
I know i said "this maybe a little insensitive", but it was a genuine question , because though i know He is the God of all comfort (which i thought you may have at least said), i still would have a real time of it , accepting my loved ones that don't believe are destined to burn eternally
Again, I don't believe ET is a reality anymore. I believe it is either life or death.
Quote:
I also think your answer did not come from the heart but drawn from a defense of what you believe.
Well Sciota i may well be assuming , but your answer on how you cope lacks anything that could be reasonably considered to be grief or anguish about their destiny.
God tells me you are wrong in His Bible.
Remember, I threw out the futurist and shiny new planet semantics, so you are preaching to the choir about being programmed.
God tells me you are wrong in the scriptures.
Whatever your chosen form of eschatology, which i have noticed is what you base much of your theology on, it does not change the fact that we have very different understandings of who God is and his plan and purpose for the creation.
Again, I don't believe ET is a reality anymore. I believe it is either life or death.
sciotamicks I’m glad you don’t believe the Bible teaches eternal torment anymore because, like legoman, I truly believe that the ET doctrine is the world’s greatest evil.
But I cannot see any essential difference between your Full Preterists/Covenant Creationists and Annihilationists.
In both beliefs unbelieving humans cease to exist.
As a UR, my own understanding of what the Bible teaches about God's plan and purpose for His creation is best laid out by J. Preston Eby.
A great sixteen chapter introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid biblical perspective. Highly Recommended!
And don't be silly, and say again like you did before that you would "rather believe the Bible than Eby."
Eby's entire purpose is to show that it is the Bible from which he draws all of his conclusions.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 11-02-2010 at 09:05 AM..
Reason: spelling
The bible shows this from the OT, to the glad tidings of great joy for all people, to Jesus telling us to love our enemies, to death being swallowed up in victory! It's not just 1 Timothy 2:4.
I know all the verse UR claims to mean what they say out of context....sure, unfortunately when they are wieghed up against the context of scripture, they fall apart. To each his own....for starters...
The Bible is about a peculiar people set in covenant with God, whether it be a Jew of national and theological origen, or in covenantal status from characters such as Ruth, Rahab...even to Abraham...or those who believe in Christ, the fulfillment of the promise to the inwardly Jew, who is not bound to ethinic status, race or creed. The Bible is about a people, created for God and to serve God freely in personal and evangelical worship, apart from the "world."
These people were created then corrupted in Adam, and they were freed in Christ.
Well Sciota i may well be assuming , but your answer on how you cope lacks anything that could be reasonably considered to be grief or anguish about their destiny.
I dare not take on my personal will over the divine and mysterious will of God. UR does. I worship him, that is all that matters.
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It's not just 1 Timothy 2:4.
Full Preterists/Covenant Creationists
