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Old 12-15-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,628,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Jesus clearly teaches us in Matthew 13:41,42. The Son of man shall send froth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;(AND HE SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE; THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.)

I don's see anything in Scripture that would now suggest this condition will only be a probationary time of suffering. And if these people were placed there. Some how they will get out on good behaivour. Your beliefs are purly humanistic. And you can only believe what you do by only considering certain verses in the Bible. And you have to work extra hard at ignoring all the other verses that do not agree with this belief system.
Sure you do. How do you explain every that every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord?

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Surely they have a tongue when they are in Hell right? So if you believe Hell is always going to exist then surely the tongues are. The Rich man was in hell when he asked for some water to cool his tongue. So we have evidence from the scriptures then that in hell you still have a tongue. Not only that but while in hell the Rich man was carrying on a conversation with Abraham.

You see the fire is all allegorical.

 
Old 12-15-2010, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,628,309 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So you believe you found the narrow gate, how wonderful of you .The scriptures teach a man can receive nothing unless it be given him from above. So you need to rethink how you arrived at what you suppose to be the narrow gate.So what is this narrow gate you have found ?, Jesus said "I am the gate" John 10:9, and he also said "No one can come to me(the gate) unless the Father who sent me draws him".John 6:44.Is this narrow gate a different gate to the one that Father drew you into ?.
Yes, so that also means that if someone has not gone through the narrow gate then the Father must not have drawn them.

That fact does seem to get overlooked in their reasoning.
 
Old 12-15-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
Reputation: 245
Lightbulb Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
AND HE SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE; THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.
What Jesus really taught about "hell."
Jesus' Teaching on Hell

SALVATION OUT OF THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

A Scriptural Journey Through the Lake Burning with Fire and Brimstone, Which is the SECOND DEATH
L. Ray Smith - The Lake of Fire - Part 1
L. Ray Smith - Lake of Fire - part 2
L. Ray Smith - Lake of Fire - Part 3
L. Ray Smith - Lake of Fire part 4
 
Old 12-16-2010, 11:32 PM
 
17,696 posts, read 8,870,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell34 View Post
clearly john 3:36 tells us that he that believeth on the son hath everlasting life: And he that believeth not the son, (shall not see life). Most people die and do not believe in the son. Now trying to suggest that somehow this is taken care of later is a total lie. And is not supported by the scriptures. The bible tells us it is appointed once for man to be born and then the judgement. And that judgement is not somekind of work release program. Yes the bible says all men shall be made alive. And in the book of daniel chapter 12 verse 2 it tells us some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contemp. Those who experience everlasting contemp are those who are burning in hell. And revelation 20:15 clearly teaches us that whsoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Your belief that everyone will be found in the book of life is simply untrue and unbiblical. And i believe your teachings have more to do with doctrines of demons, then the word of god.
Talk about wailing and gnashing of teeth.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
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Lightbulb Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death

Originally Posted by campbell
Quote:
Revelation 20:15 clearly teaches us that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death

Campbell, what is it that makes you think that your understanding of the scriptures is more accurate than others? I'm guessing that it is because that is what you were taught by your pastor, and your Bible school professors, and the mistranslated Bible that you are using.

Here is another scriptural exposition on the lake of fire which is the second death by a different expositor, on the subject of the purpose and duration of the lake of fire which is the second death.

Everyone who is thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.
ANOTHER SCRIPTUAL EXPOSITION ON THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH
The Lake of Fire: The Prodigal Son; God Gains Attention;The Lake Of Fire;The Second Death;Not Hurt Of The Second Death;Tormented In The Presence Of The Lamb
 
Old 12-17-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,147 posts, read 2,742,061 times
Reputation: 245
Exclamation The greatest of all manifestations of God's grace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Talk about wailing and gnashing of teeth.
What was a HUGE help to me was just finding out that a UR interpretation of the lake of fire which is the second death exists. (see posts #983 and #985)

Had I known that during my youth (I'm 72 now), I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of everlasting suffering forever (Arminian), or deserve to suffer forever simply because they were born into the human race totally depraved and not one of the elect. (Calvinist).

There is no doubt in my mind that had I not found out about that UR point of view I would have been locked away in a mental hospital for the rest of my life.

In my opinion, the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe like the Arminians and Calvinists do and not go stark raving mad thinking about it.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-17-2010 at 08:22 AM.. Reason: addition
 
Old 12-17-2010, 08:34 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
What was a HUGE help to me was just finding out that a UR interpretation of the lake of fire which is the second death exists. (see posts #983 and #985)
Indeed this is what boggles my mind sometimes. There are hundreds of scriptures that plainly show that God wants and will have all mankind to be saved. And then it can be shown that there is, as you put it, a UR interpretation of the lake of the fire. So then why does someone still choose to believe in eternal torment?

Truly it is up to God to open their eyes. Until that happens they will continue to believe that God allows or purposes people to be tormented forever.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 02:33 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
Reputation: 989
"1st century sources that testify that Jesus was put to death. In the "Annals" written by Roman historian Tacitus, in Book XV, Chapter 44 we read "Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius."

"Roman historian Josephus also wrote about the death and Resurrection of Jesus.

"Also, the Roman Historian Seutonius wrote in his work "Life of the Emperor Claudius" the following about Christians: "and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws."

"The Roman historian Pliny wrote about Jesus' death in Book X of his Epistles.

"Julius Africanus, quoting Thallus another Roman historian, who wrote in about 52 A.D. about the miraculas happenings the day the Son of God was killed. He wrote: "On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down". True History of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran
 
Old 12-17-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,747,770 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Indeed this is what boggles my mind sometimes. There are hundreds of scriptures that plainly show that God wants and will have all mankind to be saved. And then it can be shown that there is, as you put it, a UR interpretation of the lake of the fire. So then why does someone still choose to believe in eternal torment?

Truly it is up to God to open their eyes. Until that happens they will continue to believe that God allows or purposes people to be tormented forever.
That's the million dollar question Legoman....I don't understand it because once I learned of UR and the scriptures that support it everything that I had ever been taught or known suddenly came under scrutiny and got questioned. I guess there just isn't as many people uncomfortable with ET as we would like to think. It really is up to God to open their eyes and hearts.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,480 posts, read 31,872,436 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
That's the million dollar question Legoman....I don't understand it because once I learned of UR and the scriptures that support it everything that I had ever been taught or known suddenly came under scrutiny and got questioned. I guess there just isn't as many people uncomfortable with ET as we would like to think. It really is up to God to open their eyes and hearts.
It is not a matter of choosing the most 'comfortable' religion, but it sounds like Rogartutt and you have done just that. Besides don't URs believe there is no choice in the matter anyway, so it makes it a waste of time to sell something that others are unable to choose in the first place.
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