U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,197,969 times
Reputation: 837

Advertisements

Fact:

In order for one to be alive and tormented eternally they must have eternal life.

But Jesus said:

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Question:

If Jesus gives His sheep eternal life then how do those who are not his sheep receive it?


That is the flaw in the Christian view of eternal torment. They say that we all have eternal life - some will spend it in Hell and the rest with Jesus. But Jesus said that He gives His sheep eternal life. How could Jesus give them what they already have? Obviously Jesus gives them what they do not already possess.



In Christ love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 19,926,774 times
Reputation: 22091
Why all this emphasis on what happens to the unbelievers after they die? I just don't get it. Everyone talks about how their faith adds so much love and peace to their hearts - but it seems that all the focus is on Hell or annihilation or torment or fire. If you are so full of love - why spend so much time thinking about what's going to happen to all the people that don't believe the same exact thing that you do. It just sounds very vengeful. I'm not saying you are full of hate - but it just doesn't seem like you are full of love. I just don't get it.
I think we all just die - but I think there is a lot of beauty in that. We lived a great life and then we get to have a wonderful, well deserved sleep.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 10:54 PM
 
17,139 posts, read 8,685,571 times
Reputation: 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Fact:
Question:

If Jesus gives His sheep eternal life then how do those who are not his sheep receive it?
"Peace be with you!"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,197,969 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Why all this emphasis on what happens to the unbelievers after they die? I just don't get it. Everyone talks about how their faith adds so much love and peace to their hearts - but it seems that all the focus is on Hell or annihilation or torment or fire. If you are so full of love - why spend so much time thinking about what's going to happen to all the people that don't believe the same exact thing that you do. It just sounds very vengeful. I'm not saying you are full of hate - but it just doesn't seem like you are full of love. I just don't get it.
I think we all just die - but I think there is a lot of beauty in that. We lived a great life and then we get to have a wonderful, well deserved sleep.
Respectfully Dewdrop...It really doesn't matter "what you think" now does it?...and truthfully, it really doesn't matter what I think. What does matter, is where we will spend eternity, and what God, through Jesus, His Word, has to say about the subject eternity...but only someone who believes in God, His Son Jesus, His death on the cross for our sins, His resurrection, and His position as our Advocate...our Mediator between God and those who do believe and live for Him, cares about where they will spend eternity...and I just happen to be one of them...and it matters very much to ME.

Do you forget you are on a "Christian" forum...? Well, you are...and this just happens to be very important to a Christian.

So...I read all the time how you don't care to try and make others understand why you live the way you do...and how you don't want anyone to do the same toward you...right?..."Let it be"...?..."To each their own"...? you always claim..so...allow me that right as well, o.k.? I DO! care...so do many others...you don't. So let it be...you don't have to, "get it."

Sleep well...o.k...?..after your beautiful life of non-belief...and I will continue to pursue with every breath in me the truth of God's beautiful Word, and His plans for my (a believer) eternal life...I want to be with Him...forever.

God Bless you.

In Christ's love, and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,197,969 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
"Peace be with you!"
...and you! God Bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,533,506 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Why all this emphasis on what happens to the unbelievers after they die? I just don't get it.
For much of Christianity there is a belief in eternal torment for all unbelievers after death. Put yourself in their shoes - if YOU believed that, would it be a big deal to you to get the word out?

Yes - it is an absurd concept to believe in - but some have been taught it from childhood or later from people they respect.

Many Christian choose to voice their doubts of this deeply ingrained doctrine online because, especially in the bible belt, an open public doubting of eternal hell can get you "the left foot of fellowship".

I hope this helps you understand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 07:04 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,649,230 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Fact:

In order for one to be alive and tormented eternally they must have eternal life.

But Jesus said:

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Question:

If Jesus gives His sheep eternal life then how do those who are not his sheep receive it?


That is the flaw in the Christian view of eternal torment. They say that we all have eternal life - some will spend it in Hell and the rest with Jesus. But Jesus said that He gives His sheep eternal life. How could Jesus give them what they already have? Obviously Jesus gives them what they do not already possess.


In Christ love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Verna, you bring up a good point to discuss so I would like to ask you a question.

What is your explanation of the typical verses used to support it?

Such as this one

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,085,071 times
Reputation: 807
John 17:3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

If Jesus said that eternal life is nothing more than knowing God and him....which, according to the verse above, that IS ALL IT IS....why have so many added to it with their own doctrine of what they think it is?

Last edited by ChristyGrl; 10-01-2010 at 07:56 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,197,969 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Verna, you bring up a good point to discuss so I would like to ask you a question.

What is your explanation of the typical verses used to support it?

Such as this one

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
"Unending dread and shame without end" is not unending but lasts only "till they are destroyed."

In New Testament times, people used such terms as "unending," "without end," "eternal," or "everlasting" with a different meaning than we do today. For us, "unending" or "everlasting" punishment means "without end," and not until the wicked are destroyed. The recognition of this fact is essential for interpreting later the sayings of Jesus about eternal fire and for resolving the apparent contradiction we find in the New Testament between "everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:46) and "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

When it comes to the punishment of the wicked, "unending" simply means "until they are destroyed."

"HELL: ETERNAL TORMENT OR ANNIHILATION?"
Samuele Bacciocchi, PH. D., Andrews Universitty


In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 08:51 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,649,230 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
"Unending dread and shame without end" is not unending but lasts only "till they are destroyed."

In New Testament times, people used such terms as "unending," "without end," "eternal," or "everlasting" with a different meaning than we do today. For us, "unending" or "everlasting" punishment means "without end," and not until the wicked are destroyed. The recognition of this fact is essential for interpreting later the sayings of Jesus about eternal fire and for resolving the apparent contradiction we find in the New Testament between "everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:46) and "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

When it comes to the punishment of the wicked, "unending" simply means "until they are destroyed."

"HELL: ETERNAL TORMENT OR ANNIHILATION?"
Samuele Bacciocchi, PH. D., Andrews Universitty


In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

Good deal, one of the few who understand how perpetual is used.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top