Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Its a judgement call. Those items were not around much then and have not been addressed since. You only need to look at the intention of the word of wisdom and not the exact text. A cup of coffee has far more caffeine than a can of coke.
Katspur,
Although I don't agree with much of Mormonism, I want to thank you for posting and sharing and explaining a bit. Christians are often intolerant of "other" beliefs, and you have certainly been tried here.
Good elaboration!
Blessings to you and all as we move towards the Kingdom of God,
brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
Thank you, Brian! Believe me, your kind words couldn't have come at a better time or be more welcome.
I'm with Brian. I think you're doing a great job here.
I've learned a lot here. I think Mormonism is full of ideas and myths just like Christianity proper, Catholicism, Islam and every other religion. And just like I have my own ideas which may turn out to be myths as well.
But - the bottom line is how you live (what kind of fruit you bear) and your fruit is wonderful/awesome.
How do we know that Mormonism today is not a result of the revisionists?
Why is it that this warning is being ignored?
Galatians 1:6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Mormonisn has to be said that followers had received it by Joseph Smith, a man, since he was teaching something different in order for Mormonism to stand apart from the rest.
I am heeding the warning.
I also point out that Satan is not some spirit son of God, but an angel...and a fallen one at that. Using a verse of him being son of the morning star is far from calling him the son of God. Satan was the highest of the angels called Lucifer at one time, and when he fell, his angels that followed him, fell with him.
Jesus is God as the Father and He are One. Satan was never one with God.
People let's get back on topic, please..This thread was not intended to
be a debate on the differences between Mormonism and Catholicism..or any other doctrines within the realm of Christianity..You are free and encouraged to start other threads on those.
I believe the op's intention is to answer questions about Mormonism..
People let's get back on topic, please..This thread was not intended to
be a debate on the differences between Mormonism and Catholicism..or any other doctrines within the realm of Christianity..You are free and encouraged to start other threads on those.
I believe the op's intention is to answer questions about Mormonism..
Thank you
I believe the intent of this thread is to supply information to us non-Mormons about Mormon doctrine and beliefs. Since I think you could ask 10 different Mormons, what Mormonism is, you would get 10 different responses. (That may be true for all faiths.) So I believe by adding the audio files, you can get information from folks who were Mormon or culturally Mormon and get perspectives of being Mormon in addition to Katzpur's.
How do we know that Mormonism today is not a result of the revisionists?
Excellent question. I've been waiting for someone to ask.
What was the Great Apostasy?
The core claim of Mormonism is that Jesus Christ established a Church during His mortal ministry, men changed it over the years, and He has re-established it.
Here's what we believe happened:
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often speak of a "Great Apostasy." What do they mean by this?
Even in Old Testament times, God's prophets warned that the time would come when the word of the Lord would not be found anywhere in the world.
In Amos 8:11-12, we are told, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord; And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."
Contrary to most other Christian denominations, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints contends that this prophesy did, in fact, come to pass, and that shortly after the deaths of Christ's Apostles, the Church He personally established ceased to exist in its original form -- in other words that there was, for many, many years, a famine in the world "a famine of hearing the words of the Lord" and that, regardless of where one might wander in search of God's word, it could not be found.
Throughout the New Testament, the Apostles also warned that this was to happen. Paul seemed particularly concerned about the infant Church and frequently voiced his concerns to the early Christians. Among his statements to Christ's followers, are these:
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition…
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel…
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears…
Paul made it absolutely clear that (1)the flock would not only be attacked, it would not be spared, (2) Christ would not return to the earth until this universal "falling away" or "apostasy" had taken place, (3) these things were already beginning to take place as he spoke, and (4) the doctrines taught by the Savior would, in time, cease to endure.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds that during the first few centuries after the Savior and His Apostles died, Christianity began to evolve into something quite different than it had originally been. While the Apostles, who assumed leadership over the Church after Christ's death, undoubtedly did everything within their power to preserve and strengthen the Church, there were, unfortunately, other forces at work. Within a matter of just a few years following their deaths, the simplicity and purity of Christ’s teachings had begun to undergo some rather significant changes. Greek philosophical thought corrupted such basic doctrines as the true nature of God and man’s relationship to Him, as learned but uninspired men sought to make this new religion more acceptable to the masses, and especially to the non-Jewish convert. Finally, and probably most important of all, God withdrew His priesthood from the earth. What did this mean? It meant that there was no one left who held the authority to act in His name. With God no longer directing the affairs of His Church, man was on his own. Through debate and discussion, by vote and by compromise, what we now know as “mainstream” Christianity emerged.
Religious scholars describe this as "The Helenization of Christianity." We call it simply, "The Great Apostasy."
Does this mean that Christianity ceased to exist entirely? No. There have been devout Christians ever since the time of Christ. But the "fullness" of His gospel was taken from the earth, just as the ancient prophets said it would be.
If Christ's Church did, in fact, fall into apostasy during its infancy, why would God wait until 1830 to restore that which was lost? And why wasn't the work of the great Reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin sufficient to reform the Church if, in fact, the Church needed to be reformed at all?
While the Apostles predicted that a universal Apostasy would take place following their deaths, they also spoke of hope in a Restoration of that which was lost. As recorded in Acts 3:19-21, Peter prophesied of this restitution or “apokatastasis” (also translated as reconstitution, restoration or re-establishment) "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
He did not specifically state when it would take place. However, he did say that Christ will not return until “the restitution of all things” had occurred. In other words, the second coming will take place after “all things” have been restored. The two events will not take place simultaneously. The Greek word for “until”, as used in this instance, is “achri.” It denotes completion of an act or event as in the statement, “You can’t go to the movies until you’ve cleaned your room.” Other examples of this usage are found in Luke 1:20, Romans 8:22 and Revelation 17:17.
In Revelation 14:6, John too spoke of the Restoration, when he described seeing "another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people…" Why on earth would it have been necessary for an angel to have to bring back the everlasting gospel if it had been here since Christ established it?
Many Protestants today believe that, while the Catholic Church had strayed markedly from the Church Christ established during His ministry, the Reformation of the 15th and 16th centuries resolved the doctrinal and organizational disputes of the prior millennium and a half. That the great reformers recognized the need for a return to the pure form of Christianity the Savior had established while on the earth is evident in their comments to that effect:
“I have sought nothing beyond reforming the Church in conformity with the Holy Scriptures. The spiritual powers have been… absolutely destroyed… I simply say that Christianity has ceased to exist among those who should have preserved it.” (Martin Luther, as quoted in Luther and His Times, page 509)
“[There is] no regularly constituted church of Christ on earth, nor any person authorized to administer any church ordinance, nor can there be until new apostles are sent by the great head of the Church, for whose coming I am seeking.” (Roger Williams, as quoted in Picturesque America, or the Land We Live In; edited by William Cullen Bryant; 1872)
“It does not appear that these extraordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit were common in the Church for more than two or three centuries…. From this time… the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were no longer to be found in the Christian church… The Christians… only had a dead form [of Christianity] left.” (John Wesley, as quoted in John Wesley’s Works, volume 7)
These men were sincere and well-meaning, and each of them was evidently disturbed by the lack of spiritual power and authority in the Church. Their attempts to reform those doctrines they saw to be in error were admirable (even inspired), but still an unsatisfactory solution to the problem. What Jesus Christ’s Church really needed was not a “reformation” but a “restoration.” Martin Luther, Roger Williams and John Wesley all unwittingly attempted to repair an old garment with a new piece of cloth and, as the Savior had warned, this was not the way things were to be done. (Matthew 9:16)
Finally, in 1830, the Lord saw fit to restore the fullness of His Gospel to the earth. The divinely-mandated “restitution of all things” had begun.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think you're doing a great job here. 
