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Old 10-15-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,908 posts, read 47,211,581 times
Reputation: 14748

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Finn do you really believe that salvation is so black and white that you hear the good news and you believe and become a christian ?, or if you do not accept it the moment you hear it you are not willing ?. This kind of salvation creates carnal christians(christian who just have a belief system and have no reality of Christ within them) and not believers born of the Spirit....
Why ask? Those are your words, so why are you asking me if I believe it?

And yesterday you cooked up something about lobotomies, and then asked me if I really believe God will perform lobotomies, as if it was me who had made such claims. Why are you making up stuff and then asking people if that is what they really believe?

The Bible says Christ saves those who believe in Him. We are saved by grace alone through faith alone. If you want to label Christians as "carnal Christians" because they don't believe what you insist, then that is your game, not mine. I let God be the judge of who is a 'good enough' Christian.

I asked the other poster if everyone she has knew were dragged to Christ, and she chose to not answer. Then I asked if Christ dragged the pharisees to Him, and she chose to not answer. Can you answer those questions? If you believe everyone is saved, and salvation is done by Christ dragging people to Him, then that can only mean that EVERYONE is dragged to Christ, and I don't see the Bible saying such things. I already quoted what Jesus told the pharisees, and it was not "you hate me, but I am going to drag you to me anyway, so that you'll be saved". The Pharisees rejected Christ, and so have millions of other people, and they were not dragged in to Christ. They died in their sins, just like Jesus said they would. He did not draw them to Him, and that is where UR teaching fails.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:21 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,908,643 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I asked the other poster if everyone she has knew were dragged to Christ, and she chose to not answer. Then I asked if Christ dragged the pharisees to Him, and she chose to not answer. Can you answer those questions?

Believers who disagree with me always tell me to look at scripture, and when I do and they do not like the conclusion I may see from doing what they tell me, then they pull this kind of nonsense. I didn't answer you? I most certainly did.

Finn, if Scripture tells me that no one comes to the father unless drawn, then THAT is my answer.

You say I choose not to answer, well I am answering you with scripture.

John 6:44 tells me the answer.

So I have answered you.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:47 AM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,067,465 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why ask? Those are your words, so why are you asking me if I believe it?
The reason i asked you the question is because i actually believe that salvation is a work of the holy spirit and not based on "I" .Just like we cannot force others to believe we cannot force or try to make ourselves to believe , it simply is not in us to do it.

Jesus said Himself i will draw all men unto Himself , these are Jesus's words not mine . We will never agree on what is "All men", but you cannot dispute the fact that Jesus said "He draws men".


It does not say He draws us to a place where we have to decide , it says He will draw all men unto me. It's this way so man cannot boast that he has any part in his own salvation . We are saved because "He's the Savior" .

This is my testimony and my boast is in He's mighty to save and not "i believe"

I also find it funny that you accuse herefornow of boasting(when she wasn't) , but what you believe is the way of Salvation is nothing short of boasting in yourself.

ps yes God would have to lobotomize me to come to terms with and accept my family, friends and stranger were in eternal torment, and actually there are things which are impossible for God to do(think before you respond to this) and lobotomizing His people is one of them.I have always believed this , though i have not always believed all men literally meant all men.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:48 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,716,561 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
Well, you could read it. Who knows?! You might learn something! It is really explaning the salvation of all.

Anyone who is not able to admit that they might be wrong prove to all others that they have an unteachable spirit ...
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,908 posts, read 47,211,581 times
Reputation: 14748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Believers who disagree with me always tell me to look at scripture, and when I do and they do not like the conclusion I may see from doing what they tell me, then they pull this kind of nonsense. I didn't answer you? I most certainly did.

Finn, if Scripture tells me that no one comes to the father unless drawn, then THAT is my answer.

You say I choose not to answer, well I am answering you with scripture.

John 6:44 tells me the answer.

So I have answered you.
It is an answer to a question no one asked. Why can't you answer the question I asked?
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:50 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,908,643 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is an answer to a question no one asked. Why can't you answer the question I asked?
I did, you simply do not like the answer.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,908 posts, read 47,211,581 times
Reputation: 14748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Anyone who is not able to admit that they might be wrong prove to all others that they have an unteachable spirit ...
Do you have a teachable spirit?

If yes, then believe what I have said, and admit you were wrong.

If no, then (according to your own logic) you just proved to everyone that you have an unteachable spirit.

Or are you just kidding when you say that if people don't agree with your ideas, then it means that they have an unteachable spirit? It sounds like a bad joke, but it is hard to tell with the absence of the smiley face.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,908 posts, read 47,211,581 times
Reputation: 14748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I did, you simply do not like the answer.
Never mind. I won't ask again since you obviously will not answer.

I will leave you to chat with your UR friends before I get accused of hijacking a thread.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,777 posts, read 13,504,261 times
Reputation: 6584
I remember years ago I asked the question on a Catholic forum,"how can anyone be happy in heaven knowing others are burning in hell?"

The answer from most was that the glory of seeing God was so great that it was all you'd be able to think about. Or something like that.

The problem of evil is still something I struggle very much with.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:14 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,908,643 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Never mind. I won't ask again since you obviously will not answer.

I will leave you to chat with your UR friends before I get accused of hijacking a thread.

Do what you want, nothing has changed, the scripture that answers the question did not change.

Everyone I know was dragged to Christ because scripture says they were. Everyone you know WAS dragged because scripture declares that they were.

If John 6:44 says that no one comes to Jesus unless he is dragged then our perception of that term is incorrect if we say we know someone who wasn't.

The scripture is the answer to the question, so walk away if you like. Let the record stand that I answered your question.
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