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>>Does volume 3 support and confitm volume 10? No, because each volume discusses separate topics. However, one ne book in the Bible supports and confirms the other books, since they all discuss the topic of God. <<
RESPONSE:
Are you serious? I've already pointed out some significant contradictions. Taking just the New Testament, was Jesus born during the reign of King Herod (died 4 BC) as Matthew says, or duing the census by Quirinius (6 AD) as Luke says? Did Jesus send for and ride two animals when entering Jerusalem to fulfill a prophecy (Matthew) or only one animal (Mark, Luke, John)? Where is the prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazorean (Matthew?). How many nights was he in the tomb, two or three. Have you noted the many misquotations of scripture by Matthew?
What day was he crucified on Holy Thursday (John) or Good Friday (Matthew, Mark, Luke)? Wher and when did Jesus ascend? Bethany on Easter Sunday evening, or Mt. Olivet 40 days after Easter? The list is extensive. Are you still claiming that they support and confirm each other?
And we haven't even begun to examine the Old Testament!
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-17-2010 at 04:15 PM..
Reason: typo
Why do you insist on resorting to the same non-response that the God dunnit crowd use. God can do anything . . . blah, blah, blah. That makes you as intellectually dense as they are. Sticking with us adults . . . how do you propose to get an ignorant primitive to explain something they have no prior knowledge or experience of? How would YOU communicate something you have no possible referent for in your prior knowledge and understanding? Stop being obtuse. You do the best you can, period. That would not mean the truth is not there because you were too ignorant or incompetent to express it accurately.
The "spiritual fossil record" is comprised of all the records of oral and written myths, legends, traditions, scriptures and speculations about God and our purpose that we have about the evolution of our spiritual understanding.
RESPONSE:
>>God can do anything . . . blah, blah, blah. <<
May I assume then that you don't believe it? God is finite and limited, you think?
>> how do you propose to get an ignorant primitive to explain something they have no prior knowledge or experience of?<<
It's called divine inspiration. It exists or it does not. That's the point.
>>How would YOU communicate something you have no possible referent for in your prior knowledge and understanding?<<
I'd rely on divine inspiration if it existed.
>>That would not mean the truth is not there because you were too ignorant or incompetent to express it accurately.<<
"For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture." (Providentissimus deus,80)
Or not?
>>The "spiritual fossil record" is comprised of all the records of oral and written myths, legends, traditions, scriptures and speculations about God and our purpose that we have about the evolution of our spiritual understanding.<<
Yes, lots of myths, legends, and speculations! How much of each is found in scripture do you think? Just a human writing then?
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-17-2010 at 04:29 PM..
Reason: typo
>>Does volume 3 support and confitm volume 10? No, because each volume discusses separate topics. However, one ne book in the Bible supports and confirms the other books, since they all discuss the topic of God. <<
RESPONSE:
Are you serious? I've already pointed out some significant contradictions. Taking just the New Testament, was Jesus born during the reign of King Herod (died 4 BC) as Matthew says, or duing the census by Quirinius (6 AD) as Luke says? Did Jesus send for and ride two animals when entering Jerusalem to fulfill a prophecy (Matthew) or only one animal (Mark, Luke, John)? Where is the prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazorean (Matthew?). How many nights was he in the tomb, two or three.
Have you noted the many misquotations of scripture by Matthew? What day was he crucified on Holy Thursday (John) or Good Friday (Matthew, Mark, Luke)? Wher and when did Jesus ascend? Bethany on Easter Sunday evening, or Mt. Olivet 40 days after Easter? The list is extensive. Are you still claiming that they support and confirm each other?
And we haven't even begun to examine the Old Testament!
Yes, I am serious, and as I already told you, people like you who are on a mission to discredit the Bible are not interested in the truth, but instead settle for conclusions made by others who are also on a mission to discredit the Bible. You, just like countless atheists, universalists and non-believeres have already decided that the Bible is inaccurate and full or errors are only interested in proving that the Bible is incorrect, as opposed to trying to prove it is correct. It is very telling about how they feel about the word of God. Study history, and start by figuring out how many censuses there were in that time period.
If you don't beleieve it to be accurate, then don't. Maybe one day Christ will open your heart and you will see that the Bible is indeed the word of God and that it is accurate.
May I assume then that you don't believe it? God is finite and limited, you think?
I do not presume to decide what God MUST do based on what He is supposed to be capable of.
Quote:
>> how do you propose to get an ignorant primitive to explain something they have no prior knowledge or experience of?<<
It's called divine inspiration. It exists or it does not. That's the point.
It does NOT say Divine DICTATION . . . it says Divine INSPIRATION. I have been the beneficiary of inspirations and they do not remotely resemble dictation. They are entirely non-verbal. They must be interpreted and translated into verbal or mathematical descriptions using existing knowledge and understanding to produce the novel and creative result of the inspiration.
Quote:
>>That would not mean the truth is not there because you were too ignorant or incompetent to express it accurately.<<
"For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture." (Providentissimus deus,80)
Or not?
Complete and utter man-made nonsense and superstition. There is no such thing as "supernatural" anything! . . . nor is there ANYTHING that is in the hands of men that is infallible.
Quote:
>>How would YOU communicate something you have no possible referent for in your prior knowledge and understanding?<<
I'd rely on divine inspiration if it existed.
That just gets you the truth . . . It doesn't provide the means to communicate it to others.
Quote:
>>The "spiritual fossil record" is comprised of all the records of oral and written myths, legends, traditions, scriptures and speculations about God and our purpose that we have about the evolution of our spiritual understanding.<<
Yes, lots of myths, legends, and speculations! How much of each is found in scripture do you think? Just a human writing then?
You ask the wrong question. How much of each represents the underlying truth embedded within the mis-communications? Of course they are human writing . . . (what a jerk). What other kind of writing would they be?
Yes, I am serious, and as I already told you, people like you who are on a mission to discredit the Bible are not interested in the truth, but instead settle for conclusions made by others who are also on a mission to discredit the Bible. You, just like countless atheists, universalists and non-believeres have already decided that the Bible is inaccurate and full or errors are only interested in proving that the Bible is incorrect, as opposed to trying to prove it is correct. It is very telling about how they feel about the word of God. Study history, and start by figuring out how many censuses there were in that time period.
If you don't beleieve it to be accurate, then don't. Maybe one day Christ will open your heart and you will see that the Bible is indeed the word of God and that it is accurate.
RESPONSE:
I have demonstrated inaccuracies and contradictions in the Bible. You evidently are not disputing this.
But you fail to rebut these errors.
>>I already told you, people like you who are on a mission to discredit the Bible <<
Some people like to separate fact from error. Some people can't.
Does pointing out the facts discredit the Bible?
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-18-2010 at 03:47 AM..
Reason: typo
>>I have been the beneficiary of inspirations and they do not remotely resemble dictation. They are entirely non-verbal. They must be interpreted and translated into verbal or mathematical descriptions using existing knowledge and understanding to produce the novel and creative result of the inspiration. <<
RESPONSE:
Are you claiming that your inspirations were divinely inspired? If not, your counterpoint is irrelvant.
>>Complete and utter man-made nonsense and superstition. There is no such thing as "supernatural" anything!<<
RESPONSE:
Are you claiming to be an atheist and ruling out anything beyond the physical?
>> . . . nor is there ANYTHING that is in the hands of men that is infallible.<<
RESPONSE:
Does this include all "inspired" books?
>> That just gets you the truth . . . It doesn't provide the means to communicate it to others.<<
RESPONSE:
If you too are human and fallible, how can you determine what is the "truth"?
>>You ask the wrong question. How much of each represents the underlying truth embedded within the mis-communications? Of course they are human writing . . . (what a jerk). What other kind of writing would they be? RESPONSE:
Perhaps divinely inspired?
You seem confused by the concept of divine inspiration. Are you saying it exists or does not exist?
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-18-2010 at 04:01 AM..
Reason: typo
I have demonstrated inaccuracies and contradictions in the Bible. You evidently are not disputing this.
Does pointing out the facts discredit the Bible?
I already told you to study the matter assuming the Bible might be accurate. If you had done so, you would already know the answers, but you refused to do it, because you are happy thinking the Bible is incorrect. You are not quoting facts, but an old talking point of Bible deniers.
Quirinius was not officially appointed as governor of all of Syria until 6AD, but he was already in governing areas in Syria and was in charge of the census, during the census in Herod's time. That is a historical fact, and proves there is no contradiction.
I already told you to study the matter assuming the Bible might be accurate. If you had done so, you would already know the answers, but you refused to do it, because you are happy thinking the Bible is incorrect. You are not quoting facts, but an old talking point of Bible deniers.
Quirinius was not officially appointed as governor of all of Syria until 6AD, but he was already in governing areas in Syria and was in charge of the census, during the census in Herod's time. That is a historical fact, and proves there is no contradiction.
RESPONSE:
>>I already told you to study the matter assuming the Bible might be accurate.<<
Since it can be evidenced that it isn't, why waste time on what is known to be untrue?
>>Quirinius was not officially appointed as governor of all of Syria until 6AD, but he was already in governing areas in Syria and was in charge of the census, during the census in Herod's time.<<
RESPONSE:
This is an old attempt to reconcile the ten year difference between Matthew's and Luke's birth date for Jesus. If you are claiming it as fact, please cite your documentation.
"Although universal registrations of Roman citizens are attested in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and A.D. 14 and enrollments in individual provinces of those who are not Roman citizens are also attested, such a universal census of the Roman world under Caesar Augustus is unknown outside the New Testament. Moreover, there are notorious historical problems connected with Luke's dating the census when Quirinius was governor of Syria, and the various attempts to resolve the difficulties have proved unsuccessful. P. Sulpicius Quirinius became legate of the province of Syria in A.D. 6-7 when Judea was annexed to the province of Syria. At that time, a provincial census of Judea was taken up. If Quirinius had been legate of Syria previously, it would have to have been before 10 B.C. because the various legates of Syria from 10 B.C. to 4 B.C. (the death of Herod) are known, and such a dating for an earlier census under Quirinius would create additional problems for dating the beginning of Jesus' ministry (Luke 3:1, 23). A previous legateship after 4 B.C. (and before A.D. 6) would not fit with the dating of Jesus' birth in the days of Herod (Luke 1:5; Matthew 2:1). (NAB)
Also see especially:
Josephus, Antiquities 17.342-344, 355
"Now the territory subject to Archelaus was added to (the province of) Syria, and Quirinius a man of consular rank, was sent by Caesar to take a census of property in Syria and to sell the estate of Archelaus."
Note: Archelaus was a son of King Herod who inherited Judea after the death of Herod in 4 BC. Archelaus remained ruler for ten years until he was deposed and exiled by the Romans in 6 AD, TEN YEARS AFTER HEROD'S DEATH.
Josephus, Antiquities 18.1-4 "Quirinius also visited Judaea, which had been annexed to Syria, in order to make an assessment of the property of the Jews and to liquidate the estate of Archelaus."
Luke's account contains yet another blunder. Joseph and Mary were residing in Nazareth of Galilee. Galilee remained under Herod Antipas, another son of the deceased Herod, and didn't come under direct Roman control or the Roman census. Hence, Joseph and Mary would not have been required to register in Bethlehem, which is in Judea, not Galilee.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-18-2010 at 09:51 AM..
Reason: typo
>>I have been the beneficiary of inspirations and they do not remotely resemble dictation. They are entirely non-verbal. They must be interpreted and translated into verbal or mathematical descriptions using existing knowledge and understanding to produce the novel and creative result of the inspiration. <<
RESPONSE:
Are you claiming that your inspirations were divinely inspired? If not, your counterpoint is irrelvant.
I realize it may be something beyond your control . . . but try not be such a complete a$$ . . . I made no such claim.
Inspiration is inspiration NOT dictation . . . regardless of the source. Your obtuseness and refusal to think and accept what is presented to you . . . as it is presented . . . is trolling behavior.
Quote:
>>Complete and utter man-made nonsense and superstition. There is no such thing as "supernatural" anything!<<
RESPONSE:
Are you claiming to be an atheist and ruling out anything beyond the physical?
Why are you conflating the two concepts . . . just because religious autocrats created a false category of supernatural for God to avoid the incursions of truth by science does NOT mean that category actually exists . . . NOR that God must be in it. There is no such thing as supernatural, period. That has no impact on the reality and existence of God.
Quote:
>> . . . nor is there ANYTHING that is in the hands of men that is infallible.<<
RESPONSE:
Does this include all "inspired" books?
Do you have a comprehension problem . . . what is your understanding of ANYTHING?
Quote:
>> That just gets you the truth . . . It doesn't provide the means to communicate it to others.<<
RESPONSE:
If you too are human and fallible, how can you determine what is the "truth"?
I do what any of us do . . . study and search for it using my God-given abilities. The point being, however, that I have faith it is in there because it is God-inspired. That was a huge difference for me particularly (thanks to my meditations) . . . knowing I was searching for something that actually exists.
Quote:
>>You ask the wrong question. How much of each represents the underlying truth embedded within the mis-communications? Of course they are human writing . . . (what a jerk). What other kind of writing would they be?
RESPONSE:
Perhaps divinely inspired?You seem confused by the concept of divine inspiration. Are you saying it exists or does not exist?
Au contraire . . . it is you who is confused by the concept of divine inspiration. It is NOT DICTATION. It MUST be interpreted by the "inspiree." Allowing the unsupported and unsupportable nonsense promulgated by RELIGIONS to color your discourse seems to be the main source of your confusion.
RESPONSE: This is an old attempt to reconcile the ten year difference between Matthew's and Luke's birth date for Jesus.
A latin inscription discovered in 1764 proves what I already told you is correct. You can dismiss it as "an old attempt", but you are doing EXACTLY what I said all Bible haters do in their mission to discredit the Bible. They will not accept any possibility that the Bible could be correct, and their own theories incorrect. It is a waste of time to show you the truth, since you have already decided that the Bible is wrong.
You don't have to believe that the Bible is accurate. I know it is accurate, because every time someone presents another discrepency theory, and I look into it, I find that there is always an explanation to the confusion. To me it is 100% accurate.
So, my answer to the OP is, yes, I believe the Bible is God inspired.
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). What other kind of writing would they be?
