Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-20-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,336,953 times
Reputation: 873

Advertisements

Hi everyone,
After my recent post regarding violence, I had a "re-discovery" of why ET and annihiliationism is false.

What's more, I now finally understand that not even those who believe in ET/annihiliationism actually believe in it. And the reasoning for this, is thus:

Quite simply, the people who teach that God puts unbelievers in hell (or annihiliates them forever) do not believe in it themselves, because if they TRULY believed this, they would probably already be in prison, or dead. Here's why:

- many claim that God "pardons" infants and anyone who does not reach the "age of accountability." The only REASONABLE way to get as many of these people into heaven (and eternity is all that counts, right??) is to kill them. Children, infants, the mentally-challenged, etc. All of them ought to be killed, thereby insuring their places in the heavenlies.

But, of course, no one would do this, because it is evil. Not even those who claim to believe that God will otherwise put them in eternal suffering or destruction.

The other reason ETers and annihiliationists (the coherent ones, not those who just give it lip service) would all be in prison or dead, is that they would feel completely justified in killing new converts. It would be unthinkable to run the risk of "back-sliding" or "turning away from the faith." Once someone has confessed Jesus as Lord, boom!! The new believers in Christ, in order to secure their salvation, would need to be put to death. (Again, we must remember that it is eternity that counts, not this temporal life..)

And so ETers and annihiliationists would be locked up for murder, or, in places like Texas or Iran, they would be put to death.

But of course ETers and annihiliationists are not in prison for this, and the reason is plain and simple: they do not believe in it themselves.
(Sad it is, however, to think of the hypocrisy of those as who condemn (and even kill) abortion doctors, only to "save" infants whom they can tell their message of "eternal torment" to-- a message they can't accept in their hearts themselves. Thank God!

----------
I don't plan to write much more about this topic anymore, as I feel the Lord has finally given me the comfort and acceptance of the truth of this that I was in need of, even though I had heard it many times before.
My prayer is that it will help give peace to all of you out there who are wanting closure on this issue like I did.

Blessings to all!
Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-20-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
200 posts, read 251,260 times
Reputation: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
- many claim that God "pardons" infants and anyone who does not reach the "age of accountability." The only REASONABLE way to get as many of these people into heaven (and eternity is all that counts, right??) is to kill them. Children, infants, the mentally-challenged, etc. All of them ought to be killed, thereby insuring their places in the heavenlies.
Quite thought provoking, Brian. This brings to mind a conversation my wife and I had with a Christian counselor, back when we were attending a fundamentalist church, whom I think came pretty close to this.

In the wake of my brother-in-law's suicide, my wife was having a terrible time coming to terms with the loss of her only brother/sibling. Our pastor recommended this counselor and we met with him. This counselor had a young (at the time) son. I'm not quite sure how we segued to this topic, but he told us, "I prayed just after my son was born, probably like you did with your children, and asked that if God knew my son would not make a decision to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior when he became accountable, that God take my son right then and there, because I would rather he not survive this world and be in heaven."

Well, we definitely could not say that we had ever prayed for this to happen with our three sons! But this comes pretty close to your scenario, Brian.

No, we didn't go back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,916 posts, read 26,143,925 times
Reputation: 16072
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone,
After my recent post regarding violence, I had a "re-discovery" of why ET and annihiliationism is false.

What's more, I now finally understand that not even those who believe in ET/annihiliationism actually believe in it. And the reasoning for this, is thus:

Quite simply, the people who teach that God puts unbelievers in hell (or annihiliates them forever) do not believe in it themselves, because if they TRULY believed this, they would probably already be in prison, or dead. Here's why:

- many claim that God "pardons" infants and anyone who does not reach the "age of accountability." The only REASONABLE way to get as many of these people into heaven (and eternity is all that counts, right??) is to kill them. Children, infants, the mentally-challenged, etc. All of them ought to be killed, thereby insuring their places in the heavenlies.

But, of course, no one would do this, because it is evil. Not even those who claim to believe that God will otherwise put them in eternal suffering or destruction.

The other reason ETers and annihiliationists (the coherent ones, not those who just give it lip service) would all be in prison or dead, is that they would feel completely justified in killing new converts. It would be unthinkable to run the risk of "back-sliding" or "turning away from the faith." Once someone has confessed Jesus as Lord, boom!! The new believers in Christ, in order to secure their salvation, would need to be put to death. (Again, we must remember that it is eternity that counts, not this temporal life..)

And so ETers and annihiliationists would be locked up for murder, or, in places like Texas or Iran, they would be put to death.

But of course ETers and annihiliationists are not in prison for this, and the reason is plain and simple: they do not believe in it themselves.
(Sad it is, however, to think of the hypocrisy of those as who condemn (and even kill) abortion doctors, only to "save" infants whom they can tell their message of "eternal torment" to-- a message they can't accept in their hearts themselves. Thank God!

----------
I don't plan to write much more about this topic anymore, as I feel the Lord has finally given me the comfort and acceptance of the truth of this that I was in need of, even though I had heard it many times before.
My prayer is that it will help give peace to all of you out there who are wanting closure on this issue like I did.

Blessings to all!
Brian
Many people will go to any length to attempt to refute the reality of hell. People are completely responsible for their own decisions. You don't murder a child because he might not place his faith in Christ. It is his responsibility to make that decision regarding whether or not he receives Christ as Savior. It is the very reason that God selected him to be physically born. By your reasoning, God, knowing that someone wouldn't believe in Christ, never would have allowed that person to be born in the first place. Everyone who is born into the world was already foreknown by God. He knew who would believe in Christ and who wouldn't. And He places the responsibility on each person to make a volitional choice with regard to his eternal salvation. God holds each person who is mentally able to understand the issue involved in salvation, responsible to make that decision regarding Jesus Christ. And no one in their right mind would consider for even a second, murdering their child so that he wouldn't have to face that decision.

And killing new believers to keep them from backsliding? A believer can't lose his salvation in the first place. Backsliding has nothing to do with losing salvation.

You have made a faulty and completely distorted attempt at rationalizing away the reality of the unbelievers eternal future in the lake of fire.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Revelation 20:10 'And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 4,170,812 times
Reputation: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Many people will go to any length to attempt to refute the reality of hell. People are completely responsible for their own decisions. You don't murder a child because he might not place his faith in Christ. It is his responsibility to make that decision regarding whether or not he receives Christ as Savior. It is the very reason that God selected him to be physically born. By your reasoning, God, knowing that someone wouldn't believe in Christ, never would have allowed that person to be born in the first place. Everyone who is born into the world was already foreknown by God. He knew who would believe in Christ and who wouldn't. And He places the responsibility on each person to make a volitional choice with regard to his eternal salvation. God holds each person who is mentally able to understand the issue involved in salvation, responsible to make that decision regarding Jesus Christ. And no one in their right mind would consider for even a second, murdering their child so that he wouldn't have to face that decision.

And killing new believers to keep them from backsliding? A believer can't lose his salvation in the first place. Backsliding has nothing to do with losing salvation.

You have made a faulty and completely distorted attempt at rationalizing away the reality of the unbelievers eternal future in the lake of fire.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Revelation 20:10 'And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
We have repeatedly told you what those verses are all about. You refuse to listen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,853,082 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone,
After my recent post regarding violence, I had a "re-discovery" of why ET and annihiliationism is false.

What's more, I now finally understand that not even those who believe in ET/annihiliationism actually believe in it. And the reasoning for this, is thus:

Quite simply, the people who teach that God puts unbelievers in hell (or annihiliates them forever) do not believe in it themselves, because if they TRULY believed this, they would probably already be in prison, or dead. Here's why:

- many claim that God "pardons" infants and anyone who does not reach the "age of accountability." The only REASONABLE way to get as many of these people into heaven (and eternity is all that counts, right??) is to kill them. Children, infants, the mentally-challenged, etc. All of them ought to be killed, thereby insuring their places in the heavenlies.

But, of course, no one would do this, because it is evil. Not even those who claim to believe that God will otherwise put them in eternal suffering or destruction.

The other reason ETers and annihiliationists (the coherent ones, not those who just give it lip service) would all be in prison or dead, is that they would feel completely justified in killing new converts. It would be unthinkable to run the risk of "back-sliding" or "turning away from the faith." Once someone has confessed Jesus as Lord, boom!! The new believers in Christ, in order to secure their salvation, would need to be put to death. (Again, we must remember that it is eternity that counts, not this temporal life..)

And so ETers and annihiliationists would be locked up for murder, or, in places like Texas or Iran, they would be put to death.

But of course ETers and annihiliationists are not in prison for this, and the reason is plain and simple: they do not believe in it themselves.
(Sad it is, however, to think of the hypocrisy of those as who condemn (and even kill) abortion doctors, only to "save" infants whom they can tell their message of "eternal torment" to-- a message they can't accept in their hearts themselves. Thank God!

----------
I don't plan to write much more about this topic anymore, as I feel the Lord has finally given me the comfort and acceptance of the truth of this that I was in need of, even though I had heard it many times before.
My prayer is that it will help give peace to all of you out there who are wanting closure on this issue like I did.

Blessings to all!
Brian
I only read the first couple of lines and realized how nuts this sounds...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 05:45 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,853,082 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
We have repeatedly told you what those verses are all about. You refuse to listen.
Yea, they mean what they say...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,853,082 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Many people will go to any length to attempt to refute the reality of hell. People are completely responsible for their own decisions. You don't murder a child because he might not place his faith in Christ. It is his responsibility to make that decision regarding whether or not he receives Christ as Savior. It is the very reason that God selected him to be physically born. By your reasoning, God, knowing that someone wouldn't believe in Christ, never would have allowed that person to be born in the first place. Everyone who is born into the world was already foreknown by God. He knew who would believe in Christ and who wouldn't. And He places the responsibility on each person to make a volitional choice with regard to his eternal salvation. God holds each person who is mentally able to understand the issue involved in salvation, responsible to make that decision regarding Jesus Christ. And no one in their right mind would consider for even a second, murdering their child so that he wouldn't have to face that decision.

And killing new believers to keep them from backsliding? A believer can't lose his salvation in the first place. Backsliding has nothing to do with losing salvation.

You have made a faulty and completely distorted attempt at rationalizing away the reality of the unbelievers eternal future in the lake of fire.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Revelation 20:10 'And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
It is not the individual's deciaion, but God's...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,853,082 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffy63 View Post
Quite thought provoking, Brian. This brings to mind a conversation my wife and I had with a Christian counselor, back when we were attending a fundamentalist church, whom I think came pretty close to this.

In the wake of my brother-in-law's suicide, my wife was having a terrible time coming to terms with the loss of her only brother/sibling. Our pastor recommended this counselor and we met with him. This counselor had a young (at the time) son. I'm not quite sure how we segued to this topic, but he told us, "I prayed just after my son was born, probably like you did with your children, and asked that if God knew my son would not make a decision to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior when he became accountable, that God take my son right then and there, because I would rather he not survive this world and be in heaven."

Well, we definitely could not say that we had ever prayed for this to happen with our three sons! But this comes pretty close to your scenario, Brian.

No, we didn't go back.
That is rediculous...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 06:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,916 posts, read 26,143,925 times
Reputation: 16072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is not the individual's deciaion, but God's...
To the contrary. God offers salvation to all. God desires that all men be saved. 2 Tim. 2:3-4; John 3:16

The only thing that prevents anyone from being saved is their own volitional choice to reject the free gift of salvation through faith in Christ. John 5:40.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 06:58 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 1,351,464 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone,
After my recent post regarding violence, I had a "re-discovery" of why ET and annihiliationism is false.

What's more, I now finally understand that not even those who believe in ET/annihiliationism actually believe in it. And the reasoning for this, is thus:

Quite simply, the people who teach that God puts unbelievers in hell (or annihiliates them forever) do not believe in it themselves, because if they TRULY believed this, they would probably already be in prison, or dead. Here's why:

- many claim that God "pardons" infants and anyone who does not reach the "age of accountability." The only REASONABLE way to get as many of these people into heaven (and eternity is all that counts, right??) is to kill them. Children, infants, the mentally-challenged, etc. All of them ought to be killed, thereby insuring their places in the heavenlies.

But, of course, no one would do this, because it is evil. Not even those who claim to believe that God will otherwise put them in eternal suffering or destruction.

The other reason ETers and annihiliationists (the coherent ones, not those who just give it lip service) would all be in prison or dead, is that they would feel completely justified in killing new converts. It would be unthinkable to run the risk of "back-sliding" or "turning away from the faith." Once someone has confessed Jesus as Lord, boom!! The new believers in Christ, in order to secure their salvation, would need to be put to death. (Again, we must remember that it is eternity that counts, not this temporal life..)

And so ETers and annihiliationists would be locked up for murder, or, in places like Texas or Iran, they would be put to death.

But of course ETers and annihiliationists are not in prison for this, and the reason is plain and simple: they do not believe in it themselves.
(Sad it is, however, to think of the hypocrisy of those as who condemn (and even kill) abortion doctors, only to "save" infants whom they can tell their message of "eternal torment" to-- a message they can't accept in their hearts themselves. Thank God!

----------
I don't plan to write much more about this topic anymore, as I feel the Lord has finally given me the comfort and acceptance of the truth of this that I was in need of, even though I had heard it many times before.
My prayer is that it will help give peace to all of you out there who are wanting closure on this issue like I did.

Blessings to all!
Brian
Brian, I wish it was that simple but your making a false assumption. Your assuming these ET'ers have a burden for the damned. Many just shrug it off (their motto to the damned - "must suck to be you") and the other camp, they rejoice these heathens are getting their due punishment.

Maybe I'm just cynical by now. Even when I believed in ET, it bothered the hell out of me, dwelled on it all of the time, couldn't dismiss it , not even for a day.

Blessings to you Brian, glad the Lord gave you peace over this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top