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Old 10-30-2010, 12:34 PM
 
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I've been busy studying all three and, for my money, annihilationism comes out the clear winner just by virtue of having more scriptural support than the others.

All three views are supported in the Bible, but that's partly because the Bible has become hopelessly corrupted by over 300 translations, most of them bad, hence the perpetual utter confusion and inability by Christians and theologians alike to settle on any one view as definitive. But clearly annihilationism has more verses going for it than the other two. A sampling:

Quote:
The Bible supports the annihilation perspective well. It tells us that evildoers not covered with the blood of Christ will be pulled up and burned in the fire (Matthew 13:40-42). They will be burned up like chaff (Luke 3:17), they will vanish like smoke (Psalm 37:20), they will experience the second death (Revelation 21:8), they will perish, their souls will die (Ezekiel 18:4), they will be no more (Psalm 37:10), you will not be able to find them (Psalm 37:10), both their bodies and souls will be destroyed (Matthew 10:28), they will be ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous (Malachi 4:1-3), and they will be left neither root nor branch (Malachi 4:1-3).
More specifically:

Quote:
Malachi: 'Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire, says Yahweh Almighty. Not a root or a branch will be left to them. But for you who revere My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things, says the Lord Almighty.
And these:

Quote:
Psalm 37: a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.

Isaiah: And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Clearly, the worms live but the wicked do not. The worms crawl through their dead bodies and smoke from these burning bodies ascends "forever and ever' per Revelation.

Finally, only God has immortality. 1 Timothy 6:16. Humans are not born with an eternal soul. And He confers immortality on his faithful, but destroys the wicked. That is amply supported by over a hundred verses in the Old and New Testaments, far more than the few verses ET'ers and UR'ers can muster.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
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Yes thrillobyte, I whole-heartedly agree that annihilation is the "end-of-the-end" for all those who die in their sins. There is no second chance...and the wicked, dead soul does not get resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne from their graves to live an eternal life...anywere!...they are gone...forever...up in smoke.


...did you read my thread on "Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation"...?

If not...please, take the time to click on the link I provided in that thread and study it...I think you may truly benefit from it.

God Bless you.


In Christ's love,
Verna.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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thrillobyte and Verna,

The scriptures testify that anyone not IN CHRIST is dead. No spirit, no resurrection, no life.
So is annihilationism the correct term? Sure it is...I believe it, as a Full Preterist even, you may posit the resurrection of the dead in the future, and I in the past, the end result was final.

Poof! Gone........

So what exists in the NH and E?

Life for those in the New Jerusalem, and no life...for those outside of it. No more poof! Just a cessation of existence...or as the atheists put it......lights out.

We are saved for service in His kingdom.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:39 PM
 
10,177 posts, read 10,538,351 times
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Quote:
...did you read my thread on "Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation"...?
Yes, I will definitely take a look, Verna. in my own studies I just g**gled "Eternal torment vs Conditional Immortality" and started from pg 1 and got to 5 before coming o the conclusion that ann. is the most scripturally supported. Thank you for the reference.

Quote:
So is annihilationism the correct term? Sure it is...
I think more and more people will come to realize this is the correct view, Sciota, as they continue to examine the wording more carefully. I mean "will be no more" and "they will not be found" and "they will vanish"-- I mean how much intelligence does it take to correctly interpret what the words say?!
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:43 PM
 
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Saul went "poof".
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Old 10-30-2010, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Saul went "poof".
and turned into Paul....oof!
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Old 10-30-2010, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Saul went "poof".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
and turned into Paul....oof!
......love it.
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
thrillobyte and Verna,

The scriptures testify that anyone not IN CHRIST is dead. No spirit, no resurrection, no life.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Exact words of Jesus ////////////
Matthew 25
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, .......... he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


"I mean how much intelligence does it take to correctly interpret what the words say?! "

No resurrection of anyone not "IN CHRIST" .......... wrong!

Annihilationism ........... wrong!
  • who the heck did:
    • Jesus seperate .... actual sheep and goats?
    • say to Jesus ... 'Lord when did we see you ....?'
    • say to ON HIS LEFT .....'Depart from me, you who are cursed, ... ?
    • Jesus preach to when he decended into hell .... ?
I know ... I know, Jesus is sadistic and now unintelligent.
Either Jesus is under a delusion or not.

I'm getting past my civility point with this non-sense.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:03 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,930,857 times
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heres my problem with the 3,.....

people suffer in thbis life ,some alot more than other's,i beleive the reason for this is that this life is not our first,nor our last on the material platform of existence.and that what we do,our actions in this life will determine our next,.there are two verses in the bible that hint towards karma and reincarnation,two that came from Jesus-"what you reap,so shall you sow","he who is first in this life shall be last in the next,and he who is last will be first".

karma and reincarnation-reincarnation is the transmigration of the soul from one body to another,even in this life the soul goes through many body's,from boy to youth to manhood to old age and finnally death,cells are continuosly dying and being renewed,but the soul,which is not made of material energy dosent change nor perish when the body does,it is eternal-eternal=no beginning and no end!!

each and every living entity originates from the spiritual universe but somehow weve fallin down from that existence and have fallin into material temporary existence,while we are here our actuons have effect and thgus karma comes into play,in our natural spiritual state we are full of bliss and knowledge,but in our conditioned state our true spirits are covered due to our desires for matertial pleasure(sense gratification).

the soul which is pure spiritual energy is in essense the same as God's energy,qualitivly we are the same but not quantitivly,just like a drop of water and the ocean itself,God is the whole and we and everything in existence are the parts!He is Love and in our original state of consioussness,we are love too.

now the reason why the 3 dont make sense is because i dont think God would put anybody in an unfair position,i mean,if this life is our first and only life then wouldnt God give everyone the same chance,why would he have one starve for a lifetime then annhialate them,or send them to hell for eternity,or why would he have someone like Hitler go straight to the spiritual kingdom,when he has hurt so many people,"reap what you sow".

my beleifs are closer to that of the UR's though,in time everyone will return home since that is where we originate from,but it could take billions of lifetimes or be done in one,purely up to the individuals progress through consioussness.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:55 PM
 
10,177 posts, read 10,538,351 times
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Quote:
Annihilationism ........... wrong!
Again, twin, I give you ten verses for your one.

Quote:
Psalms 37:20 “The wicked shall perish ... they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”
Psalms 37:38 “Transgressors will be destroyed together.”
Ezekiel 28:15, 18-19 Even Satan will become “ashes” on the “earth” as a result of the fire.
Malachi 4:1, 3 The “day cometh” when the lost “burn up” and become “ashes.”
John 3:16 Those who are lost will “perish.”
Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is “death,” not eternal life in hell fire.
Matthew 3:12 “Unquenchable fire” will totally “burn up” the wicked.
Matthew 10:28 “Fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
Revelation 21:8; 20:14 “The lake of fire ... is the second death.”
When ten say "utterly gone" and one appears to suggest eternal torment, which would one logically side with?
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