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Old 11-05-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: East Coast
26,826 posts, read 17,581,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
It's not true, and we are supposed to be one with God, just as Jesus was; I and the Father are one~~John 10:30.

~~John 17:20,21. My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message. That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Hi herefornow , i don't believe it is myself.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,127,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Hi herefornow , i don't believe it is myself.
I didn't think so. I'm not sure where everybody else stands on this issue here on CD, though.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:26 PM
 
Location: East Coast
26,826 posts, read 17,581,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I didn't think so. I'm not sure where everybody else stands on this issue here on CD, though.
I have since the early 90's, before i beieved in UR, prior to that i never understood how God could be 3 of anything, so the trinity doctrine somehow never sat well with me., but let's face it many of us just accepted what we were taught.

Last edited by pcamps; 11-05-2010 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:15 AM
 
271 posts, read 276,065 times
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I think that children of Israel were also "G"ods
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,703,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
They are of the same essence does not mean that they are equal. For instance, you and your son are of the same essence but perhaps not equal.

If they were equal, Lucifer would have worshiped the Word (Jesus) from the get go.
RESPONSE:

Poor analogy. There is no comparrision between a finite human essence and a divine essence.

The Trinity

"We must now turn to a discussion of who comprises the Trinity. The answer is that God has revealed Himself in the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - three persons but one being. Each of the persons is distinct and performs unique functions. Each of the persons fully contains each of the attributes and characteristics we discussed yesterday, so is fully God. Each member of the Trinity is infinite, eternal and unchangeable in His justice; each is infinite, eternal and unchangeable in his wisdom and so on."

Basic Christianity, Part Four: The Trinity | Challies Dot Com
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,229,155 times
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Trinity - Shminity.

How about this: There is one God the Father who has a Son named Jesus and who has a Spirit which is holy.

(You know - the Son OF God, the Spirit OF God etc).

Simple.

To add to this at all is extra-biblical speculation (at best) and total confusion (at worst).
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,555 posts, read 6,240,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Trinity - Shminity.

How about this: There is one God the Father who has a Son named Jesus and who has a Spirit which is holy.

(You know - the Son OF God, the Spirit OF God etc).

Simple.

To add to this at all is extra-biblical speculation (at best) and total confusion (at worst).
Even in not being a believer, this makes far more sense than the other stuff, but I guess you can't say you're a believe in one god and still worship Jesus as god and still be considered a monotheist, hence the dilemma Mike and others like him encounter.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,229,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Even in not being a believer, this makes far more sense than the other stuff, but I guess you can't say you're a believe in one god and still worship Jesus as god and still be considered a monotheist, hence the dilemma Mike and others like him encounter.
With modalism though you can bypass the nonsense and still adhere to the deity of Christ. If you view Jesus as the manifest express image of he unseen God (as opposed to the manifest express image of the unseen Son) then the deity of Christ makes sense. If you see the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the one God (the Father) then it makes sense for the Holy Spirit to impregnate Mary and for Jesus to be called "The Son of God". Being called "God's Son", by default "God" refers to the Father (duh) and that makes the "Holy Spirit" the Spirit of God (AKA: the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ - duh!).

But if the Holy Spirit is NOT the Spirit of the Father then, well, He is some kind of father NOW - since He fathered Jesus. (!). In that case you have God the Father, God the Holy Spirit who fathered Jesus, and also a manifestation of an unseen Son who has always been begotten while never being born (AKA: begotten) but which had to be fathered by the Holy Spirit in order to be born. And He is STILL called the Son of God the Father. Though conceived by the Holy Spirit, who is not the Father, although He fathered Jesus.

Confused yet? LOL

Remember - scripturally Jesus is never called "God the Son" only the "Son of God" and the Holy Spirit is never called "God the Holy Spirit" only the "Holy Spirit of God".

The whole non-modal Trinity thing is the most confusing bunch of nonsense ever contrived. To "explain" it they had to come up with terms like "eternally begotten" and talk about different people having one essence. At least most traditional trinitarians will admit that it's unexplainable, but they insist that one believe their version or be damned.

To me the mystery is not the three people but the way in which God the Father through the power of His (Holy) Spirit shows up in a human body. The resulting human being and consciousness refers to God as "my Father" understanding that from the human standpoint there is an another-ness about His total being (while appearing in human form) though spiritually being the very essence of God breaking through into this physical plane.

But of course, those holding "other" views (modalists or other non-orthodox trinitarianists) were burned right beside the witches.

And here I said I don't like to get involved in trinity debates. (!!!)

Last edited by firstborn888; 11-06-2010 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:34 AM
 
Location: East Coast
26,826 posts, read 17,581,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
To me the mystery is not the three people but the way in which God the Father through the power of His (Holy) Spirit shows up in a human body. The resulting human being and consciousness refers to God as "my Father" understanding that from the human standpoint there is an another-ness about His total being (while appearing in human form) though spiritually being the very essence of God breaking through into this physical plane.

But of course, those holding "other" views (modalists or other non-orthodox trinitarianists) were burned right beside the witches.

And here I said I don't like to get involved in trinity debates. (!!!)
Amen .


I'm of the same mind about trinity debates too.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:33 AM
 
910 posts, read 956,210 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Poor analogy. There is no comparrision between a finite human essence and a divine essence.

The Trinity

"We must now turn to a discussion of who comprises the Trinity. The answer is that God has revealed Himself in the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - three persons but one being. Each of the persons is distinct and performs unique functions. Each of the persons fully contains each of the attributes and characteristics we discussed yesterday, so is fully God. Each member of the Trinity is infinite, eternal and unchangeable in His justice; each is infinite, eternal and unchangeable in his wisdom and so on."

Basic Christianity, Part Four: The Trinity | Challies Dot Com
'Let us make man in our image and Likeness'

If you read that portion and still make out the analogy is poor, well you win!
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