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Old 11-02-2010, 05:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
It is amazing that you can see this, but refuse to see Kosmos in it. Here, I will highlight where you have used it. But it does change a few of your long held beliefs, doesn't it? That is, if you admit it. But other passages will suddenly explode in your head, like the beasts of Revelation, and both of them in the time of Jesus. "My Kingdom is not of THIS world(KOSMOS)". Did this mean His Kingdom was somewhere else? No! It is WITHIN! His LAW written on your heart. His will be done. We are subjected,,,and on and on.
Aren't we discussing this on another thread?

Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:47 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Aren't we discussing this on another thread?

Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?
Yes, but you do see this,,, don't you? So why, if the Spirit has given you understanding, do you deny it? You explained it so perfectly, yet cannot see where it is used in the Word.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:05 PM
 
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The Power the devil has that Jesus took was given to him By the Lord God in the book of Genesis 3: 14....``And the Lord God said to the serpent, because you have done this you are cursed above the cattle and above every beast of the field upon your belly shall you go and dust shalt you eat all the days of your life```Here the devil is given power over the animals of the World which man is an animal if he rejects the Lord God and his power through Jesus Blood , and this power is for the Lord blessing in the earth for health and blessing for eternal life ......
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Yes, but you do see this,,, don't you? So why, if the Spirit has given you understanding, do you deny it? You explained it so perfectly, yet cannot see where it is used in the Word.
Well you are obviously not understanding everything that i said.

You are focusing on the grammatical uses of the word "world"/"Kosmos" and its implications, derived from the perceived context of scripture you subscribe to in your theology.

When i see, "God so loved the world" i see the whole creation, while you may see something else.

When i see that Christ "came not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved", i see the whole creation, and not some subdivision thereof.

When I read that "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself", i see the whole creation, while again you may see something different.

I don't see what it is that you think about the word "Kosmos" that disproves biblical Christian Universalism.

To me, you are grasping at straws, and it seems like you are trying to make a "semantic argument" which is some how supposed to be a counter to the argument that words like "Hell" and "everlasting/eternal/for ever and ever" are mistranslations.

Its seems to me that you are just basically running interference ...
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:02 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,430 posts, read 29,583,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
ILNC i am trying to be on my best behavior on this thread , you still haven't answered what is the power of death that the devil had power over ?
Sin, the power of sin over us died when Jesus died on the cross.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,294 posts, read 20,031,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
It is amazing that you can see this, but refuse to see Kosmos in it. Here, I will highlight where you have used it. But it does change a few of your long held beliefs, doesn't it? That is, if you admit it. But other passages will suddenly explode in your head, like the beasts of Revelation, and both of them in the time of Jesus. "My Kingdom is not of THIS world(KOSMOS)". Did this mean His Kingdom was somewhere else? No! It is WITHIN! His LAW written on your heart. His will be done. We are subjected,,,and on and on.
HotinAZ i think that Aha moment you had about the world was a false alarm
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
HotinAZ i think that Aha moment you had about the world was a false alarm
Of course you would say this,,because you are blinded by a false doctrine.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:20 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Of course you would say this,,because you are blinded by a false doctrine.
Amen
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:23 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Well you are obviously not understanding everything that i said.
Ok then,,,let us see.

Quote:
You are focusing on the grammatical uses of the word "world"/"Kosmos" and its implications, derived from the perceived context of scripture you subscribe to in your theology.
Actually, it was the mainstream use of the word at the time. Look it up.

Quote:
When i see, "God so loved the world" i see the whole creation, while you may see something else.
Check this out,,,ok?

Jer 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Mat 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Having looked at BOTH these verses,,,what do you think KOSMOS is? Could it be Israel, or His Kingdom that He set up from the beginning? And I am not talking about a parcel of land either.

Hmm,,,

Rom 11:17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Quote:
When i see that Christ "came not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved", i see the whole creation, and not some subdivision thereof.
He didn't condemn the nation of Israel or the empire of Rome. They condemned themselves. And some of them WERE saved, so the 'might' was right!

Quote:
When I read that "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself", i see the whole creation, while again you may see something different.
He is in CHRIST and HE DID RECONCILE the WORLD to Himself. His Kingdom, His KOSMOS. It needed reconciling after the fall.

Quote:
I don't see what it is that you think about the word "Kosmos" that disproves biblical Christian Universalism.
It disproves it completely. It means there is a Kingdom of Light, and a kingdom of darkness, and those who are not in Light are in darkness. If a person dies IN darkness, they remain forever IN darkness. Gone, forever.

Quote:
To me, you are grasping at straws, and it seems like you are trying to make a "semantic argument" which is some how supposed to be a counter to the argument that words like "Hell" and "everlasting/eternal/for ever and ever" are mistranslations.
No, I was using this to show just how close minded you really are. You listen to men who study a few certain words mistranslated, yet fail to see the bigger picture. UR is a lie, period. Whether or not you see this, is irrelevant at this point in time. But hopefully you are not done in your walk, and remain faithful until the end,,,because the Spirit will most certainly lead you out of it, and into the Truth.

Quote:
Its seems to me that you are just basically running interference ...
It may seem that way,,,but really,,,is it?
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:27 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,209,405 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Ok then,,,let us see.



Actually, it was the mainstream use of the word at the time. Look it up.



Check this out,,,ok?

Jer 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Mat 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Having looked at BOTH these verses,,,what do you think KOSMOS is? Could it be Israel, or His Kingdom that He set up from the beginning? And I am not talking about a parcel of land either.

Hmm,,,

Rom 11:17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,



He didn't condemn the nation of Israel or the empire of Rome. They condemned themselves. And some of them WERE saved, so the 'might' was right!



He is in CHRIST and HE DID RECONCILE the WORLD to Himself. His Kingdom, His KOSMOS. It needed reconciling after the fall.



It disproves it completely. It means there is a Kingdom of Light, and a kingdom of darkness, and those who are not in Light are in darkness. If a person dies IN darkness, they remain forever IN darkness. Gone, forever.



No, I was using this to show just how close minded you really are. You listen to men who study a few certain words mistranslated, yet fail to see the bigger picture. UR is a lie, period. Whether or not you see this, is irrelevant at this point in time. But hopefully you are not done in your walk, and remain faithful until the end,,,because the Spirit will most certainly lead you out of it, and into the Truth.



It may seem that way,,,but really,,,is it?

Everything you wrote above is a testament to why i disagree with you ...

You have provided no evidence of your claim as to the meaning of the word KOSMOS and how you interpret it, but you simply are using traditional systematic covenant theology as the source of your claims.

If you want, you could write a new version of the bible and translate the word KOSMOS however you believe it should be translated.

And you can write your own lexicon and remove "the universe and everything in it" from the definition of KOSMOS.

What traditional fundamentalist Christians often seem to fail to recognize is that the new Covenant is not only for Israel, or the church, but it is for all people in every nation.

God is the savior of all people, especially those that believe. And God will have all people to be saved. And Christ died for our sins, and not our sins only, but for the sins the whole world and everyone in it. Fo all who were made sinners by the disobedience of Adam, will be made righteous by the obedience of Christ. And all who die because of the sin of Adam, will be made alive in the life of Christ.



That is the real Good news ...
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