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Forced military servitude was not instituted by God, but neither was pacifism.
I disagree 100 percent. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
If you love, you have fulfilled your duty to your country. "Love thy neighbor as thyself." That means, if you don't want someone to kill you, then you must not kill others.
Just read Acts 10
Cornelius seems not to be a jew but believes in the jewish god.
Peter goes to were Cornelius is and speaks to a group of people and apparently starts to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.
So I don’t think those people or Cornelius were Christian before that. So I wonder if Cornelius gave up his carrier as a Centurion just as Paul (Saul?) seemed to after his vision.
So I still don’t see that a Christian should go to war.
Now remember my original question is about war not self defense or carrying a weapon.
The verses you quote are the ones that confirm what I am saying: He hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.
But you only heard half of what Paul said...LOL
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Quote:
This is also why I do not believe in war. Am I supposed to kill those whom God has created with His own hands?
Not as an individual seeking your own personal revenge or desires, but within the context of Government, yes. It is what God has ordained. This IS what scripture teaches. There is nothing that Jesus taught to contradict what His divine providence has instituted and rules over.
Quote:
If you believe in killing other people, then why is it ok to kill some and not others? If the innocent are killed in war, and it is justified as "necessary," then why are people put in prison for killing other innocent people?
Jesus said, "resist not evil." Again, BASIC teachings.
There is a world (godly world) of difference between what Jesus instructed individuals do individually, such as not seeking revenge for wrongs suffered, and what Jesus has instituted by His divine providence that we do collectively within the context of Government service, for our own protection and self preservation. Do you see the difference here?
I believe some of the comments on this thread regarding love are the very reason UR is not taken seriously by the fundamentalists because of the wrong perception it's putting forth as love . Love does no harm to your neighbor, bit in his love God chastises, and punishes us, and also set up in love the principle of reaping and sowing, and whatever we meter out is metered back to us ,not because he doesn't love us but because he does love us.
Just read Acts 10
Cornelius seems not to be a jew but believes in the jewish god.
Peter goes to were Cornelius is and speaks to a group of people and apparently starts to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.
So I don’t think those people or Cornelius were Christian before that. So I wonder if Cornelius gave up his carrier as a Centurion just as Paul (Saul?) seemed to after his vision.
So I still don’t see that a Christian should go to war.
Now remember my original question is about war not self defense or carrying a weapon.
Thanks for your replies
Aeroman
Actually, if you read Acts 10 carefully, Cornelius was said to be a man that feared God, worked righteousness and was found acceptable to God.
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
There is nothing that Luke records of Peter's discourse that tells us that Cornelius' military service was wrong or that he needed to leave his profession (and it was his profession) to follow Christ.
Cornelius was nothing like Saul:
Act 9:1 AND Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
But of Cornelius, it is said:
Act 10:4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Just read Acts 10
Cornelius seems not to be a jew but believes in the jewish god.
Peter goes to were Cornelius is and speaks to a group of people and apparently starts to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.
So I don’t think those people or Cornelius were Christian before that. So I wonder if Cornelius gave up his carrier as a Centurion just as Paul (Saul?) seemed to after his vision.
So I still don’t see that a Christian should go to war.
Now remember my original question is about war not self defense or carrying a weapon.
Thanks for your replies
Aeroman
This could well be true and went through my mind too as i read it,and many of us have left our previous vocations in life, after believing, when much of the time God has wanted us to remain there as an instrument of righteousness, yes even right there in the military.
Hi AlabamaStorm, I’m not saying that Cornelius wasn’t acceptable to God.
I’m saying he was not a Christian. And so it would be no problem for him to go to war.
I don’t see this as evidence that a Christian can go to war.
I don’t know what Cornelius did after he met with Peter. Did he get baptized and become a Christian?
Did he leave his position as a centurion?
I just didn’t see that in Act 10 when I read it.
So I still see no evidence that a christian should go to war..
Last edited by Aeroman; 11-15-2010 at 09:25 AM..
Reason: off to make some coffee, brb :D
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Not as an individual seeking your own personal revenge or desires, but within the context of Government, yes. It is what God has ordained. This IS what scripture teaches. There is nothing that Jesus taught to contradict what His divine providence has instituted and rules over.
There is a world (godly world) of difference between what Jesus instructed individuals do individually, such as not seeking revenge for wrongs suffered, and what Jesus has instituted by His divine providence that we do collectively within the context of Government service, for our own protection and self preservation. Do you see the difference here?
Question: was the jewish nation protective of Jesus? Did the Romans protect Jesus from death?
The very basis of Christianity shows us that two authorities, 1) religious authorities, and 2) governmental authorities, are antagonistic to Christians. How did Paul die? Who put James, the brother of John to death in the book of Acts??
So if governments are put in place to protect Christians, then they did a pretty bad job of it, starting with Jesus, and continuing with the early church. If you think the government is on your side, think again.
Again, I want no part of government and military organizations. The Lord is the only One who knows how to govern man: from the heart, in Love.
Having an abortion is a personal choise. I would choose to not abort. Many things are legal, yet it does not mean you have to do it. You can choose to be a drunkard too, but is that what you want to do.
It has nothing to do with the protection of the police and military.
Don't give me that.
Obeying and not protesting your government should include not protesting any of it's laws.
So stop protesting what our wonderful protective government says is OK
And please do respond to the idea of whether or not Hitler,Mao and the like ((include some of our own here) and their troops should be supported according to your theory that governments are placed by God..
Hi AlabamaStorm, I’m not saying that Cornelius wasn’t acceptable to God.
I’m saying he was not a Christian. And so it would be no problem for him to go to war.
I don’t see this as evidence that a Christian can go to war.
I don’t know what Cornelius did after he met with Peter. Did he get baptized and become a Christian?
Did he leave his position as a centurion?
I just didn’t see that in Act 10 when I read it.
So I still see no evidence that a christian should go to war..
Cornelius was a follower of Christ (accepted by Him, God, the one whom Cornelius feared) and was born of the Spirit and cleansed by Jesus prior to his conversion and partaking of the Christian sacrament.
Act 10:15 and there is a voice again a second time unto him: `What God did cleanse, thou, declare not thou common;'
What happened after Cornelius' conversion, Luke doesn't say, but why would we think that Cornelius' would leave his profession? There is nothing to lead us in that direction.
I don't think Jesus calls anyone to enter the military out of servitude or against their will. But there is nothing that Jesus taught to prohibit us from heeding His call to service, provided we do not use that liberty (to serve or not to serve) and cause others to stumble.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
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