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Old 11-16-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,521 posts, read 4,265,722 times
Reputation: 2661
Default UR vs. ET debate, is it a distraction?

I have never really heard about UR until I came here, I guess growing up Baptist may have been part of the reason for that.
To me I do think that it is a nice thought to think God will save all people but I think this debate distracts from the bigger picture. I am not willing to take a position either way since we do have conflicting verses and I donít want to rehash the UR vs. ET debate on this thread.
The bottom line is our focus should be on preaching the gospel to people, not teaching them about UR or damning them to hell (if you are ET). Sure, it is fine to tell someone who lost a non-Christian loved one about UR but it should eventually focus on the saving grace of Jesus.
Even if you are right about UR it is still a benefit to preach the free gift of salvation. The more you preach the gospel the more people may be saved in the here and now. The more people are saved now, the more people will show the fruit of love.
Most URís tend to have good hearts; they donít seem to be the Christians who focus on sin, especially the sins of others. Focus on spreading the good news and show the world that Jesus is about love, not rules and regulations.
I would hope all people are saved even after death but salvation now and the fruit of love will make our world a better place.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,674,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Most URís tend to have good hearts; they donít seem to be the Christians who focus on sin, especially the sins of others. Focus on spreading the good news and show the world that Jesus is about love, not rules and regulations.
I was thinking about this verse tonight:
1 John 5: 17
"All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

Blessings!
Brian
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
... salvation now and the fruit of love will make our world a better place.

That is the whole gist of most UR's whole outlook.
The transforming power of love in the here and now.
The KINGDOM of God. The more people that understand the LOVE of God and that GOD IS LOVE and that they are part of HIS benelovent majestic plan, the better. That is what the kindgdom of God is... When all love each other as they love theirselves and all love God. When the whole of humanity finally understands who their Creator is.

When most of mankind thinks their creator will annihilate or torture them or their loved ones forever... LOVE IS STUNTED. Hearts grow cold. Hearts grow suspicious. Hearts grow judgemental.


No. The message of God's love is what needs to SPREAD in this world.
The message of reconciliation.
The redemptive power of love.
The proclomation of God's love for ALL mankind.
The proclomation that LOVE CONQUERS ALL.

From my point of view, the ultimate reconciliation of all mankind **IS** the gospel. It's not a distraction FROM the gospel.

Peace,
sparrow
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:41 PM
 
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p.s. hilgi, I will add that I think the reality is that human beings who show love to others are those who are spreading the gospel. Those who give sight to the blind, water to the thirsty, shelter to the homeless... those who actively LOVE are those who are spreading the message of the gospel. There are many who do a much better job of that than myself, and some of those people think they don't know the first thing about God.

and yet... they do.

Love conquers all.

Go and love. I agree. That is what the world needs.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,035,185 times
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Yes and no hilgi, mainly yes. I truely believe the Holy Spirit wants to reveal and go head on with the spirit of sin and condemnation which is the message that as bewitched the church, not by proving UR is right but exposing the message of sin and condemnation for what it is. There is no good news in sin and condemnation,and to suggest otherwise is foolish.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:51 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,826,185 times
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Amen sparrow.

Higli, yes and no. IMHO UR is the gospel. Its the only good news that can be - anything else is less-than-good-news.

But yes it is a distraction to get bogged down in these debates that tread the same ground over and over. It is futility because no one will change their position until God opens their eyes. However I believe it is still worth it because God works through all things to accomplish His will - even these futile debates we have on city-data.

Don't mistake city-data for the real world though. I hardly talk about UR with anyone in the real world. Most people are just not interested - in UR, eternal hell, Jesus, religion, God, etc. They just don't care. Beating them over the head with it in real life is not the best approach. The best approach is to be a witness to what Jesus was: LOVE. Love your neighbor and your enemy.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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This is good to hear, it seems that the argument gets sidetracked with the hell no hell debate as opposed to preaching faith as opposed to works.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,868,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I was thinking about this verse tonight:
1 John 5: 17
"All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

Blessings!
Brian
...correct Brian. The "sin that is not unto death" is a "sin done in ignorance."

...and there is "a sin unto death"...which would be a sin comitted willfully...also called "presumptious" sin....when you know it is sin and you choose to comitt it anyway....this sin leads a soul to their death, separated from God forever if they die in it.


God Bless!

In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:11 PM
 
4,070 posts, read 2,175,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Amen sparrow.

Higli, yes and no. IMHO UR is the gospel. Its the only good news that can be - anything else is less-than-good-news.

But yes it is a distraction to get bogged down in these debates that tread the same ground over and over. It is futility because no one will change their position until God opens their eyes. However I believe it is still worth it because God works through all things to accomplish His will - even these futile debates we have on city-data.

Don't mistake city-data for the real world though. I hardly talk about UR with anyone in the real world. Most people are just not interested - in UR, eternal hell, Jesus, religion, God, etc. They just don't care. Beating them over the head with it in real life is not the best approach. The best approach is to be a witness to what Jesus was: LOVE. Love your neighbor and your enemy.

Same here. and I love your last line. It's so true.

The reason there are so many discussions on ur/et is because it is a very important topic because we are discussing the very NATURE of God. There are a lot of people lurking, and if a conversation motivates a person to SEEK FURTHER, to ASK QUESTIONS! Then that is a wonderful and fruitful thing. If conversations here on this little forum may cause someone to go beyond what they were taught, then that is a really excellent thing.

The way God talks to people is limitless... He can even use a frustrating topic on a little forum like this to whisper something in someone's ear. To move their heart into seeing something that perhaps they hadn't seen before.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,737 posts, read 12,130,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I have never really heard about UR until I came here, I guess growing up Baptist may have been part of the reason for that.
To me I do think that it is a nice thought to think God will save all people but I think this debate distracts from the bigger picture. I am not willing to take a position either way since we do have conflicting verses and I donít want to rehash the UR vs. ET debate on this thread.
The bottom line is our focus should be on preaching the gospel to people, not teaching them about UR or damning them to hell (if you are ET). Sure, it is fine to tell someone who lost a non-Christian loved one about UR but it should eventually focus on the saving grace of Jesus.
Even if you are right about UR it is still a benefit to preach the free gift of salvation. The more you preach the gospel the more people may be saved in the here and now. The more people are saved now, the more people will show the fruit of love.
Most URís tend to have good hearts; they donít seem to be the Christians who focus on sin, especially the sins of others. Focus on spreading the good news and show the world that Jesus is about love, not rules and regulations.
I would hope all people are saved even after death but salvation now and the fruit of love will make our world a better place.
It is a huge distraction since practically every thread devolves into the same repetition. I have even suggested that a new sub-board should be opened for the UR topics.
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