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Old 10-09-2008, 11:46 AM
 
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Interesting how Israel shows 15-37% atheist/agnostic.

Adherents.com: Atheist Statistics | Agnostic

Why that would make Deuteronomy wrong now wouldn't it? It would also make Christianity a laughing stock since there are very few Christians.

Deuteronomy 30
1"So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, (A)the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind (B)in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, 2and you (C)return to the LORD your God and obey Him (D)with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons,
3then the LORD your God will (E)restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and (F)will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has (G)scattered you.
4"If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, (H)from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back.

I don't know which of you are sports fans but in many sports one really does well to keep their eye on the ball. Where the ball here?


Romans 9
But it is not as though (Q)the word of God has failed (R)For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7nor are they all children (S)because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "(T)THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are (U)children of God, but the (V)children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Unless Paul is also wrong it seems the ball is believers. Lets keep our eye on the ball.

Act 2
5Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, (E)devout men from every nation under heaven.
6And when (F)this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.
7(G)They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking (H)Galileans?
8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
9"Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and (I)Cappadocia, (J)Pontus and (K)Asia,
10(L)Phrygia and (M)Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around (N)Cyrene, and (O)visitors from Rome, both Jews and [a](P)proselytes,
11Cretans and Arabs--we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."

Looks like a gathering to me of REAL Judah.


Now is anyone looking for this to happen?

Ezekiel 37
15The word of the LORD came again to me saying,
16"And you, son of man, take for yourself (T)one stick and write on it, 'For (U)Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For (V)Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions.'
17"Then (W)join them for yourself one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
18"When the sons of your people speak to you saying, 'Will you not declare to us (X)what you mean by these?'
19say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand."'

During Jesus time we know there were two staffs.

John 4
9Therefore the (M)Samaritan woman said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For (N)Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)
10Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you (O)living water."
11She said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep; where then do You get that (P)living water?
12"You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who (Q)gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?"

Just before the Gentiles knew a thing about God these two staff were joined.


Act 9
31So (AY)the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.

So here I have what Paul calls the real Israel or faithful remnant joined in one staff, the whole house of Israel all laid out for me right in the Bible.

So why would I think that this did not happen and why would I think that the Law in Deuteronomy was not serious?


If you don't have faith in God you are not Israel , you cannot be gathered anywhere. The children of promise are children of faith.


1 John 2
22Who is the liar but (BF)the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is (BG)the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23(BH)Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard (BI)from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also (BJ)will abide in the Son and in the Father.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Interesting how Israel shows 15-37% atheist/agnostic.
You just answered your own question. WOW! I am surprised it's not a much higher percentage.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:11 PM
 
Location: pensacola,florida
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Well God didnt restore israel,the united nations did so the prophesy stated in the bible has not happened,at least not yet.
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Old 10-09-2008, 08:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
Well God didnt restore israel,the united nations did so the prophesy stated in the bible has not happened,at least not yet.
It did happen--it's called the Church!

Preterist
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
Well God didnt restore israel,the united nations did so the prophesy stated in the bible has not happened,at least not yet.
Hello imbob,

Could you explain why Acts 2 does not apply? All these things happened in the last days including the gathering of Judah , joining Judah to Israel and finally the nations coming to know the Lord.

Micah 4
1And it will come about in the (A)last days
That the (B)mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains
It will be raised above the hills,
And the (C)peoples will stream to it.
2(D)Many nations will come and say,
"(E)Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD
And to the house of the God of Jacob,
There were, as Daniel, stated 70 Sabbatical years from the rebuilding of the wall. That left 490 years for Daniel's people until the end which was 2000 years ago. Isaiah 66 says Javan or Greece would have the Lord declared to them. In Acts 17 we see this 2000 years ago. How could Greece(Javan) have God declared to them again? It was clearly then since the other peoples mentioned are also seen to have God declared to them in Acts including North Africa and Asia. This was shown in detail on another thread "Have the Greek heard of God yet.
"For while I was passing through and examining the (AV)objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD ' Therefore what (AW)you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.
Isaiah 66
19"I will set a (AT)sign among them and will send survivors from them to the nations: (AU)Tarshish, Put, (AV)Lud, Meshech, (AW)Tubal and Javan, to the distant (AX)coastlands that have neither heard My fame nor seen My glory And they will (AY)declare My glory among the nations.
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
It did happen--it's called the Church!

Preterist
What church??? Catholic
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
You just answered your own question. WOW! I am surprised it's not a much higher percentage.
I would have to say it is over 50%. Like other religions, people are losing faith in their leaders. Most Jews were heavily stumbled by WWII and how God could allow such a horrible thing to happen to his chosen people. Most Jews I have ever met are not religious. When they say they are a Jew, mostly they are only refering to an ethnic designation.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
I would have to say it is over 50%. Like other religions, people are losing faith in their leaders. Most Jews were heavily stumbled by WWII and how God could allow such a horrible thing to happen to his chosen people. Most Jews I have ever met are not religious. When they say they are a Jew, mostly they are only refering to an ethnic designation.
Hi bluepacific,

However do you see the significance of this? Many Christians believe the state of Israel is a miraculous rebirth however this completely violates the Law stated in Deuteronomy 30 that only upon repentance would He gather them. By any definition by Deuteronomy or Paul this cannot be a gathering by God. Israel is no prophetic sign.

This also explains why Torah Jews hate Israel because they read the same "Halaka" I do. Now I see only the church and Jesus Christ as a means to the father but from their point of view they believe they are to remain in exile until God calls them because many "Jews" do not even believe in God which violates the Law from their point of view.



From their site

"Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews."

A Website for Seekers of Truth
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:58 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,383,522 times
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi bluepacific,

However do you see the significance of this? Many Christians believe the state of Israel is a miraculous rebirth however this completely violates the Law stated in Deuteronomy 30 that only upon repentance would He gather them. By any definition by Deuteronomy or Paul this cannot be a gathering by God. Israel is no prophetic sign.

This also explains why Torah Jews hate Israel because they read the same "Halaka" I do. Now I see only the church and Jesus Christ as a means to the father but from their point of view they believe they are to remain in exile until God calls them because many "Jews" do not even believe in God which violates the Law from their point of view.



From their site

"Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews."

A Website for Seekers of Truth
I guess I would have to believe what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well. The Samaritan woman spoke about some holy mountain where her people worshipped and then mentioned Jews regard Jerusalem as sacred and holy. Then Jesus gave the perfect answer.

John 4:20,21,24
[20] "Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
[21] "Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father niether in this mountain nor Jersusalem."
[24] "God is spirit and his worshippers must worship in spirit and truth."

Unfortunately people are hung up on physical temples, shrines, holy cities, idols, crosses, Mary's image in the dew of a spider's web, whatever. Most completely miss the point of worshipping in spirit and truth. The Jews were hung up on ceremony and rituals and completely missed the point of obedience to God's Laws and standards. Most Christians are the same today. It's their own conduct and actions that should give testimony to true worship. Most people today are turned off to the idea of worshipping any kind of God. They see no difference between a non-believer and those who claim to believe in God.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
What church??? Catholic
True believers--the body of Christ--the CHURCH.

Preterist
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