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Old 12-04-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,989 posts, read 1,572,652 times
Reputation: 219

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
***THIS JUST IN****

*** WE HAVE A WINNER!! ***

*** WE HAVE A WINNER!! HE HAS THE CROWN ***

We have one of the “challenged” who has obviously done MUCH studying on this “Challenge” and has ACTUALLY found his PERFECT scholar. It is clear that he knows that the “CHALLENGE” is speaking of 2 different languages when he states this…..
  • “That in any language is the lie from Satan.”
And he really puts this Scholar of his on a VERY high pedestal, for he keeps telling us how GREAT he is even “taunting” us with this FACT. He is rubbing it in our faces I tell you, look First he tells us this.….
  • “The day of proof will come unexpectedly and we shall see if your demand for proof is satisfied.”
Wow! Sorry, but we don’t have a chance here guys, for we ain’t even gonna see this one coming!! We wont even know WHEN, for he BOASTs this THREE times when he said….
  • “…. sooner or later it will become apparent”
  • “…. sooner or later it will become apparent”
  • “…. sooner or later it will become apparent”
Ladies and Gentlemen, if that ain’t THREE witnesses coming out of the SAME mouth, then I don’t know what is. Wow!...He obviously knows what he is talking about here, because he is practically GUARANTEEING that OUR EYES will be OPENED when this scholar appears…..
  • “The proof your wanting will come soon enough, and then we shall see”
Yep! We asked for it,…. and Boy is he gonna give it to us…
  • “You wanted proof..you wanted names ... you got it.”
Okay already!...Quit Boasting!….Tell us!...TELL US!....
  • “... sooner or later it will become apparent when you see Jesus as Judge”
“Who Him?” Jesus? YOUR savior? OUR savior? Are you telling me that you can find NOONE else but Jesus?
  • “I don't have to. Jesus' day will come when he will prove it”
Ok then. Jesus is your man then, thats if you really can NOT find anyone else.
  • “Jesus is the ultimate scholar. But since you don't believe him,….”
Are you TELLING us that we dont really BELIEVE Jesus and what He says?? You obviously dont, because repeatedly ask us this all the time....
  • “Did God really say”??????
Let us get this straight. Are YOU challenging US, that WE do NOT believe what Jesus says?? Sure sounds like it. On to the Challenge then...shall we.

The Challenge

In RESPECTS to the RULES set forth (and to YOU), The Challenge SPECIFICALLY states that you are to provide, at the very least, ONE Scholar….to which you have done here….
  • The Scholar: Jesus Christ
…….who DIS-AGREES to the “Greek Forms Column”,
  • And you claim He does, for He is YOUR proof, right?
Well the problem is that, how pray-tell, are we gonna KNOW if Jesus DISAGREES with US? Well, here’s a thought,………..lets just ASK Him then, shall we…..let us ask him what He "really said"....

“Hey Jesus, I have Two questions for you,……First one is……did you REALLY SPEAK a SINGULAR NOUN here……”
  • Mat 21:19…..”forever”…….
……and did you REALLY SPEAK a PLURAL NOUN here,......
  • Mat 6:13……..”forever”……..
....because WHOEVER penned these verses on paper say that you DID....”

Now, KNOW what Jesus's answer was, but we now ask the “challenged” who brought this GREAT Scholar to us..
  • “Can You TELL me what Jesus said???”
We have done BETTER then you have asked of us sir. YOU told us to….
  • “Gather up as many as you can..maybe mob rule will intimidate…”
….but we have GATHERED ALL of them, because now YOUR SCHOLAR, like ALL the rest of the MOB, are ALL standing on OUR side.

*** STOP THE PRESSES…..STOP THE PRESSES ***

*** THIS JUST IN ***

*** The Winner has been STRIPPED of his crown, and the CROWN will be given to another who is worthy, and he will have a NEW name and a NEW mind ***

Don’t Threat though!!....You STILL have a chance!!.....The Challenge still stands!!....Because there are MANY MORE scholars who haven’t even been BORN YET!!

**Secret Ad**(Pssst…SECRET AD….”the crown is, indeed, his, but he just don’t KNOW it yet”)

On a personal note: I know some may be reading these words of mine and thinking. Joe seems pretty PROUD of himself….eh. He is being pretty Arrogant about this. And to these things, some may be thinking something like “he will get his dues one day, God will PUT him in his place”.

Dear friend, Christ tells me to SHOW you your blindness. Nobody likes to be TOLD they are blind, or wrong. My words may hurt or even BURN you inside. I am simply PROVOKING you to THINK…..THINK….THINK……for yourself.

I am saying this from the bottom of my heart (I really am)…..I LOVE YOU!! My earthly child does NOT like to be SPANKED, and at that time he probably thinks I do NOT love him. But I do, I REALLY REALLY do. When the FATHER WANTS his child to COME OVER HERE…..then ‘by golly’ that child is going to COME, even if that FATHER has to DRAG that kid….whining, crying, kicking, screaming, gnashing of the teeth…….!!

It is true as you say my friend...“he will get his DUES one day, God will PUT him in his place”.

And that child's PLACE is WITH HIS FATHER. Praise the Lord!!

I LOVE YOU
WE LOVE YOU
HE LOVES ALL of US.

Blessing
Joe
twin.spin, so after reading all of the above, are you still looking for a Greek scholar who will actually declare in print or in person that the following Greek forms are not right?
If not, why not?

……………………..ENGLISH…………………………....Greek Form
Mat 21:19……….“forever”……………………………“singular”
Mat 6:13………….“forever”…………………………..“PLURAL”
Heb 1:8……………“forever and ever”…………….“singular/singular”
Gal 1:5…………….“forever and ever”…………….“PLURAL/PLURAL”
Dan 7:18 LXX …“forever and ever”……………..“singular/PLURAL” in LXX
Eph 3:21………….“world without end”……………“singular/PLURAL”
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:38 PM
 
7,435 posts, read 2,626,482 times
Reputation: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Good morning Jerwade.
I'm 72 years old I run out of gas quicker at night than younger folk.

The point we are making Jerwade is that forever, and forever and ever, should never, ever, have been used to translate these words.

……………………..ENGLISH…………………………..Greek Form
Mat 21:19……….“forever”……………………………“singular”
Mat 6:13………….“forever”…………………………..“PLURAL”
Heb 1:8……………“forever and ever”…………….“singular/singular”
Gal 1:5…………….“forever and ever”…………….“PLURAL/PLURAL”
Dan 7:18 LXX …“forever and ever”……………..“singular/PLURAL” in LXX
Eph 3:21………….“world without end”……………“singular/PLURAL”

For aionios, or any combination thereof, to mean "eternal" its noun form MUST mean eternal. It doesn’t. It is impossible for the adjective aionios to mean eternal. Aionios is an adjective.

Just as the function of "American" (adj.) is to inform us of that which pertains to America (it is never greater than "America") thus also the function of "aionios" (adj) is to inform us of that which pertains to the eon(s). It is never greater than the eons. No aion is eternal. Therefore it is impossible for that which pertains to the eons to be eternal.
Comparative Concordance of how the Greek words aion and aionios are translated in various Bible translations

Does that help explain what all the fuss is about Jerwade?
Age of the Ages (plural of the singular) to which there is a beginning and/or end.
Common sense says; you cannot pluralize forever and ever as for-ever(s) without adding an ending.
We are all different ages my friend, but not forever. Thanks for clearing up the muddy-water.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:09 PM
 
10,493 posts, read 5,019,284 times
Reputation: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Are you surprised you are on people's ignore list? It does not surprise me. Even the post above is very rude. It is also telling that every time you insult someone, all the other URs rush in to cheer you on and give you the thumbs up sign.

It is unpleasant to read posts like the one above. Very unpleasant.

It doesn't surprise me you are on people's ignore list. Even the post above is very rude. It is also telling that every time you insult someone, all the other ETers rush in to cheer you on and give you the thumbs up sign.

It is unpleasant to read posts like the ones you post. Very unpleasant.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:13 PM
 
10,493 posts, read 5,019,284 times
Reputation: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Insults, arrogance and contempt seem go hand in hand with UR, and they prove it on daily bases. Sadly they don't even realize when they are being rude.
Insults, arrogance and contempt seem go hand in hand with ET, and they prove it on daily bases. Sadly they don't even realize when they are being rude.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:19 PM
 
10,493 posts, read 5,019,284 times
Reputation: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
I did not mean to say that you are a blasphemer.
Instead I mean to say that the doctrine of ET certainly is a blasphemy.
I realize that you temporarily cannot believe that.
But sooner or later I am confident that you will.

Here is what your doctrine does to people.
Fruit from the Teaching of Hell
Roger, it is O.K. to call a spade a spade. Jesus and John called people vipers and foxes and other demeaning terms. If one is a blasphemer than that is what they are. No need to apologize if that is what someone is.

If someone preaches blasphemous doctrines that God is going to eternally torture people then that makes them blasphemers.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,268,466 times
Reputation: 401
AIONIOS ZOE and KOLASIS - Covenant people only

On Rom 5:12.... I consider it part of Paul’s continual Adam discussion that goes all the way through Rom 8 and especially picks up the Adam situation again in Rom 7.

Rom 7:8-9 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I WAS ONCE ALIVE APART FROM THE LAW, but when the commandment came, SIN CAME ALIVE AND I DIED.

Paul uses himself above as either Adam or Israel he is speaking euphemistically as a member of the corporate body of Israel that is “in Adam’s death” so in effect he is speaking of all Jews in essence. We can tell also by the verses before and the later verses which sets the context of whom he is addressing.

Rom 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to THOSE WHO KNOW THE LAW--that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?

Rom 7:23-24 but I SEE IN MY MEMBERS another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this BODY OF DEATH? [Adam’s Death]

When Paul says that he was alive, he is speaking about Adam’s state of being only in the Garden before the fall. The "Garden Temple" was the idea set before Adam and Israel for covenant life as there is no “life” outside of covenant Eph 2:12. Therefore when Paul says that “sin was in the world before Law was given” indicates that indeed the Law was the problem for man in covenant due to his weak nature. I believe we can infer that this applies only to man seeking Garden relationship with God and does not mean those who do not seek God as that would indicate Universal salvation to those outside of the Garden covenant. Paul intends it only as an understanding of Garden life. When it says that all men sin it infers that all covenant seeking men sin because they were under Law via Adam’s trying to grasp the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The story of the Bible from Adam to Moses is about covenant mankind primarily as it follows the seed lineage from Seth to Jacob and sons and then brings us to Moses. The story is moot to those who seek not God so it’s instructive only to the faithful God Seeker.

Let’s keep the Garden story in front of us and recognize that the problem is Law because according to Paul that is what brought “death” in the Garden.

Gen 2:15-17 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This led to Adam’s expulsion from the Garden Temple and was not reinstated fully until “Law” passed at the Parousia and the “curse” removed from Garden Temple life. Rev 21-22 provides a picture of the New reinstated Garden without the Old Elements of Law.

Rev 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. (2) In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (3) AND THERE SHALL BE NO MORE CURSE: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

There still is no unclean thing that may enter the City in the New Jerusalem so everything is restored to the condition of the original Garden with the exception that now through the new Adam we live under Grace as “Law” has been removed.

Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Paul’s thesis in Romans 5-8 and elsewhere is the eventual complete removal of “Law” that is forthcoming in judgment against the unrighteous Jews still holding onto its fleshly mode of existence. If we keep all of these things in mind as we read Romans 5-8 I believe it helps us understand the theme of the curse of the Law and its removal as a story of Garden Temple life resurrection.

1 Cor 15:54-56 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" THE STING OF DEATH IS SIN, and THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW.

Rom 8:2-3
For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what THE LAW, WEAKENED BY THE FLESH, COULD NOT DO. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, HE CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH

There is no universal salvation for all of mankind, only to those who enter into Garden life with Christ, have universal reconciliation....
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,989 posts, read 1,572,652 times
Reputation: 219
Lightbulb GOD HIMSELF HAS ETers LOCKED UP IN STUBBORNESS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Rodger, it is O.K. to call a spade a spade. Jesus and John called people vipers and foxes and other demeaning terms. If one is a blasphemer than that is what they are. No need to apologize if that is what someone is.

If someone preaches blasphemous doctrines that God is going to eternally torture people then that makes them blasphemers.
You are right Eusebius.

Yet I see them as not being able to help that they are blasphemers.
That is why I backed off from calling them that.

I think that God Himself has them locked up in stubborness so, especially on this forum, they can be a foil of contrast against which God can manifest, and glorify, and magnify His truth.

Without the likes of the contributions of Finn_Jarber, and Campbell, and twin.spin it would not be possible for the truth to shine as brightly on this forum.

Just another illustration of how God transforms evil into good, don't you think Eusebius?

A.P. Adams is great on expounding this subject!
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams
evil.html

I think ETers are vessels of the grossest dishonor, but sooner or later God will refashion them into vessels of honor.

I love Jeremiah 18:4-6.
The vessel is marred in the Potter's hands.
ETers need not worry that God will forsake them if they give up their dishonoring ET doctrine because they never leave the Potters hand.
Isn't that great?
Love it!!

IMO the fact that ETers cannot find an ET Greek scholar that will disprove the truth of the Greek form column is URs trump card.

……………………..ENGLISH…………………………....Greek Form
Mat 21:19……….“forever”……………………………“singular”
Mat 6:13………….“forever”…………………………..“PLURAL”
Heb 1:8……………“forever and ever”…………….“singular/singular”
Gal 1:5…………….“forever and ever”…………….“PLURAL/PLURAL”
Dan 7:18 LXX …“forever and ever”……………..“singular/PLURAL” in LXX
Eph 3:21………….“world without end”……………“singular/PLURAL”

And Joe's following conclusion is fantastic!!!

"Nobody likes to be TOLD they are blind, or wrong. My words may hurt or even BURN you inside. I am simply PROVOKING you to THINK…..THINK….THINK……for yourself.

I am saying this from the bottom of my heart (I really am)…..I LOVE YOU!! My earthly child does NOT like to be SPANKED, and at that time he probably thinks I do NOT love him. But I do, I REALLY REALLY do. When the FATHER WANTS his child to COME OVER HERE…..then ‘by golly’ that child is going to COME, even if that FATHER has to DRAG that kid….whining, crying, kicking, screaming, gnashing of the teeth…….!!

It is true as you say my friend...“he will get his DUES one day, God will PUT him in his place”.

And that child's PLACE is WITH HIS FATHER. Praise the Lord!!

I LOVE YOU
WE LOVE YOU
HE LOVES ALL of US." (end quote)

AMEN!!!
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,989 posts, read 1,572,652 times
Reputation: 219
Talking Hey, welcome back sciotamicks

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
There is no universal salvation for all of mankind, only to those who enter into Garden life with Christ, have universal reconciliation....
Hey, welcome back sciotamicks.
I'm really glad you don't believe in ET so its sort of refreshing to have you here after experiencing so much flack from the three ET blasphemers.

I haven't posted the following on this particular thread before so I don't think it can't be perceived as "spam" yet.

MORE CONTRAST AHEAD FOLKS

So we have sciotamick's Full Preterists/Covenant Creationism theology which says that people who do not hear about Jesus before they die, and even if they do hear about Him, if they are not “willing” to take one of the "statistical four or five chances" that they just might be given to start trusting in Him as their Savior, then they will simply cease to exist when they die.

VERSUS

Universal Transformation theology which says that sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, God will save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
The Outcome Of Infinite Grace, by Dr. Loyal F. Hurley (http://www.gtft.org/Library/miscellaneous/TheOutcomeOfInfiniteGrace.htm - broken link)

Not only that, but God will also transform the existence of evil and suffering into something better for everyone that it existed as He fits each individual into His master plan in their own unique way; a way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

Then, after God has finished using the existence of evil and suffering to bring blessings to all of His creatures, He will eradicate them both from existence.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams
evil.html

QUESTION:
Why would anyone even want to investigate a theology that makes our Savior anything less than
CHRIST TRIUMPHANT ??
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

So to paraphrase Sciotamicks;
It appears that I have not misled you into thinking that I am considering Full Preterists/Covenant Creationism,
I am not and never will.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:34 PM
 
9,482 posts, read 5,024,962 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
twin.spin, so after reading all of the above, are you still looking for a Greek scholar who will actually declare in print or in person that the following Greek forms are not right?
If not, why not?”
Actually, just because someone thinks they are Napoleon, doesn't mean they are. After reading all of the above there is reason to believe you seem to think there are lot of Napoleons.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,989 posts, read 1,572,652 times
Reputation: 219
Lightbulb God's plan for the ages of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Actually, just because someone thinks they are Napoleon, doesn't mean they are. After reading all of the above there is reason to believe you seem to think there are lot of Napoleons.
Your refusal to accept "THE CHALLENGE" just keeps on reinforcing the truth of God's plan for the ages of time.

ETers are not willing to even try to find an ET Greek scholar that will try to disprove the truth of the Greek form column.

……………………..ENGLISH…………………………....Greek Form
Mat 21:19……….“forever”……………………………“singular”
Mat 6:13………….“forever”…………………………..“PLURAL”
Heb 1:8……………“forever and ever”…………….“singular/singular”
Gal 1:5…………….“forever and ever”…………….“PLURAL/PLURAL”
Dan 7:18 LXX …“forever and ever”……………..“singular/PLURAL” in LXX
Eph 3:21………….“world without end”……………“singular/PLURAL”

BIBLICAL CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-04-2010 at 11:07 PM.. Reason: spelling
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