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One of the most difficult books to understand is the book of Revelations, an end time divine vision given to John the Divine in Patmos. Many preachers hardly reference it, because its simply not the bread and butter stuff. It is not helped by the fact that it was given to John using signs to refer to beings and places. The understanding of the book of Revelation is what this thread is about. Pick up a chapter or a verse and throw your 'light' on it.
I kick off by surmarising the book. For me the book ends in chapter 7, the other chapters fill in what is to happen and perhaps what had happened. But at the end (ch7, ch21&22,) the throne of God and His Christ is firmly established on earth with his servants serving him.
I would say I agree with little elmer. Revelation is about revealing one thing only: Jesus Christ.
Where is He revealed? Within your heart. That is the only place where you will see Him, ime.
The wickedness, abominations, punishments, as well as the Woman, man-child, etc are all types of the conflict within man: the son of perdition vs. the Son of Righteousness.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ is revealed to each of us personally.
You make a light work of it, Little Elmer. Remember the last chapter of the book where we are warned on the consequences of adding or subtracting from the book. There is only one outcome, so it can't be subject to individual whims and caprice. can it?
One of the most difficult books to understand is the book of Revelations, an end time divine vision given to John the Divine in Patmos. Many preachers hardly reference it, because its simply not the bread and butter stuff. It is not helped by the fact that it was given to John using signs to refer to beings and places. The understanding of the book of Revelation is what this thread is about. Pick up a chapter or a verse and throw your 'light' on it.
I kick off by surmarising the book. For me the book ends in chapter 7, the other chapters fill in what is to happen and perhaps what had happened. But at the end (ch7, ch21&22,) the throne of God and His Christ is firmly established on earth with his servants serving him.
Having taught Revelation a number of times, I don't find the book as frightening or unexplicable as many suggest - (But, one must also spend time in the other prophetic books, such as Daniel - and the rest of the Bible, not simply jump into Revelation).
There is a 'bigger picture' that is often overlooked: "Why has God provided the final Revelation ... when there is nothing anyone can do to actually prepare for the Great Tribulation?" ... and "Who is the book actually intended for, Believers (who are unlikely to be on earth during that time) ... or non-believers, who are unlikely to take any part of the Bible seriously anyway?"
My theory is that Revelation is intended to elicit a sense of urgency from believers (of all times) who have an equal reason to believe that theirs is "the final generation." (Even in the first century, there was a strong belief that Christ's return was imminent). The question is not really, "Who is correct?", but "How do Christians respond?" -- The 'urgency' is not so much toward a believer's own End Times, but for the lost who could be facing the final 7-years ... starting at any instant. (Yes, I also believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, but that is another subject - and not entirely relevant here).
Nevertheless, the sense of 'urgency' to "be about the Father's business" of obeying the Great Commission, et.al -- every day, should be even more compelling knowing that one does not even necessarily have their own "expected lifetime" -- to respond!
The book of Revelation is also the "end of the story", thus eliminating speculation that "God might unexpectedly do something else, -- other than otherwise revealed in His Word." (eg; might God actually 'change his plan and save everyone.')
Having taught Revelation a number of times, I don't find the book as frightening or unexplicable as many suggest - (But, one must also spend time in the other prophetic books, such as Daniel - and the rest of the Bible, not simply jump into Revelation).
There is a 'bigger picture' that is often overlooked: "Why has God provided the final Revelation ... when there is nothing anyone can do to actually prepare for the Great Tribulation?" ... and "Who is the book actually intended for, Believers (who are unlikely to be on earth during that time) ... or non-believers, who are unlikely to take any part of the Bible seriously anyway?"
My theory is that Revelation is intended to elicit a sense of urgency from believers (of all times) who have an equal reason to believe that theirs is "the final generation." (Even in the first century, there was a strong belief that Christ's return was imminent). The question is not really, "Who is correct?", but "How do Christians respond?" -- The 'urgency' is not so much toward a believer's own End Times, but for the lost who could be facing the final 7-years ... starting at any instant. (Yes, I also believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, but that is another subject - and not entirely relevant here).
Nevertheless, the sense of 'urgency' to "be about the Father's business" of obeying the Great Commission, et.al -- every day, should be even more compelling knowing that one does not even necessarily have their own "expected lifetime" -- to respond!
The book of Revelation is also the "end of the story", thus eliminating speculation that "God might unexpectedly do something else, -- other than otherwise revealed in His Word." (eg; might God actually 'change his plan and save everyone.')
I like this and yes you really need to read this with Daniel and other prophecies Isaiah, Jeremiahs and Ezekiel. Is there any mention of rapture in the revelation? pre-trib or post trib?
I like this and yes you really need to read this with Daniel and other prophecies Isaiah, Jeremiahs and Ezekiel. Is there any mention of rapture in the revelation? pre-trib or post trib?
Don't want to sidetrack your thread, but, no, as you know, the specific term 'rapture' is not found in Revelation or elsewhere in the Bible. However, as you probably also know, the term "Christian" is only used once in the entire Bible ... and that by a non-believer (King Agrippa); but that does not exclude it from consideration.
I've got about a dozen scriptural 'proofs', but in the book of Revelation, here is one to consider: During the first three chapters, the 'church' on earth is the primary concern with 25 references. Then, in Rev. 4, John is told, "Come up here" --where he reports the entire Tribulation persecution period from a heavenly vantage point. The church on earth is not mentioned during the entire Tribulation period as God's wrath is poured out on the rebellious (note: God never pours out 'wrath' on His people). Then, at the end of the Tribulation, the 'church' is gathered from the 4 corners of heaven --- and returns as a great army with Christ.
(A great number of new Christian believers are saved (and martyred) during the Tribulation (as noted in Rev. 7:14) -- but, these are saved from among those left behind; I believe, at the rapture. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter in God's overall scheme of things, whether the 'church' is raptured before the Great Tribulation ('after' makes no sense)-- I simply believe that the point of the Great Tribulation is lost on Christians ... and that their presence on earth at that time, is inconsistent with the rest of scripture.
You make a light work of it, Little Elmer. Remember the last chapter of the book where we are warned on the consequences of adding or subtracting from the book. There is only one outcome, so it can't be subject to individual whims and caprice. can it?
Reading it in the natural (like anyone can) is adding the carnal mind's translation, and men have been doing that (or trying to) for hundreds of years - God is spirit, He speaks by the Spirit, and it's the Spirit's renewing of our mind that can understand the things of the spirit.
Worshipped any farm animals (lambs) lately? If not, why do we interpret other things in the natural as well?
Don't want to sidetrack your thread, but, no, as you know, the specific term 'rapture' is not found in Revelation or elsewhere in the Bible. However, as you probably also know, the term "Christian" is only used once in the entire Bible ... and that by a non-believer (King Agrippa); but that does not exclude it from consideration.
I've got about a dozen scriptural 'proofs', but in the book of Revelation, here is one to consider: During the first three chapters, the 'church' on earth is the primary concern with 25 references. Then, in Rev. 4, John is told, "Come up here" --where he reports the entire Tribulation persecution period from a heavenly vantage point. The church on earth is not mentioned during the entire Tribulation period as God's wrath is poured out on the rebellious (note: God never pours out 'wrath' on His people). Then, at the end of the Tribulation, the 'church' is gathered from the 4 corners of heaven --- and returns as a great army with Christ.
(A great number of new Christian believers are saved (and martyred) during the Tribulation (as noted in Rev. 7:14) -- but, these are saved from among those left behind; I believe, at the rapture. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter in God's overall scheme of things, whether the 'church' is raptured before the Great Tribulation ('after' makes no sense)-- I simply believe that the point of the Great Tribulation is lost on Christians ... and that their presence on earth at that time, is inconsistent with the rest of scripture.
It looks like you are forgetting that the tribulations are brought about after Christ has ascended the throne of his Father on earth and opened the seals. Chapters 4 to 7, detail all that happened with the setting up of the throne of God on earth, and the lamb ascending the throne. because he alone was worthy, he opens the seals. The opening of the seals lead to punishments and tribulations which affects the worldly people. Note that God and his throne are already on earth during these times.
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Revealing Revelation -- A different twist.
