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Old 12-23-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: In the♥of Jesus !
9,569 posts, read 5,170,897 times
Reputation: 17610
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
It's obvious by your response that you've not had any experience with people of addiction, for if you had, you would definitely not have made the above statement. Tough love does exist and is usually the last resort used to help those with addiction problems reach rock bottom.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,674,733 times
Reputation: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
It's obvious by your response that you've not had any experience with people of addiction, for if you had, you would definitely not have made the above statement. Tough love does exist and is usually the last resort used to help those with addiction problems reach rock bottom...it is often a very necessary step in their recovery process.
I'm surprised it seems so "obvious," seeing that I worked for several years as a chem. dep. counselor in the US before leaving for Italy...

And no, I don't believe in "tough love." We don't have that in this neck of the woods.

Blessings!
Brian
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,852 posts, read 3,085,112 times
Reputation: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I'm surprised it seems so "obvious," seeing that I worked for several years as a chem. dep. counselor in the US before leaving for Italy...

And no, I don't believe in "tough love." We don't have that in this neck of the woods.

Blessings!
Brian
Tough love is not to be displayed by those who are running a rehab facility...but you already know this if you've worked in a facility. You also are well aware that tough love is to be displayed by family members and those who have codependently helped the addicted continue in their addiction over the years...sooner or later that must end or the addicted will die from their addiction...rock bottom has to occur in order for the recovery process to begin for the addicted.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,674,733 times
Reputation: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Tough love is not to be displayed by those who are running a rehab facility...but you already know this if you've worked in a facility. You also are well aware that tough love is to be displayed by family members and those who have codependently helped the addicted continue in their addiction over the years...sooner or later that must end or the addicted will die from their addiction...rock bottom has to occur in order for the recovery process to begin for the addicted.
I'd be leery about saying that codependency has to end or else they will die. It sounds very much like it's blaming the family for the death of the addict..

Addiction has nothing to do with the people around them, imo. People can be set free from addiction regardless of how relatives treat them. To me, I have seen love work, both in my life and in the lives of others; and to me, that is what makes all the difference.

Love does no harm, ever. What can happen, however, is that the love will torment the one who is addicted, and this torment will eventually help him/her.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,035,185 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, there is a purpose for excumumication, and it is to being the person to repentance and back on the right path and then back to church. The Bible does not eoncorage us to tolerate sin. Some people take "love your neighbor" so far that they tolarate anything their loved ones do, and that in itself if not a loving thing to do. Often the loving thing to do it intervene.

What did God do to Eli when he failed to rebuke the sins of his sons? He was punished severly.
Here you go Finn, this is what you really believe, and yet you accuse others of judging for only discerning and judging righteously.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,761 posts, read 12,130,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Here you go Finn, this is what you really believe, and yet you accuse others of judging for only discerning and judging righteously.
Eli's sons were unrepentant sinners, and this topic has absolutely nothing to do with what trettep did.

I'll tell you one more time, and this is the final time: if you are ok with calling people haters and liars, and you see that as "righteous judgment", then keep at it. I can't stop you, and nor will I comment further, since you will simply find ways to justify it. Do whatever makes you happy.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,035,185 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eli's sons were unrepentant sinners, and this topic has absolutely nothing to do with what trettep did.

I'll tell you one more time, and this is the final time: if you are ok with calling people haters and liars, and you see that as "righteous judgment", then keep at it. I can't stop you, and nor will I comment further, since you will simply find ways to justify it. Do whatever makes you happy.
You should be ashamed of yourself for falsely accusing me of saying anything remotely like this, you have this subtle way of avoiding answering fair questions and points too(something i am discerning from your posts).

So i would ask you again please stop saying that i have said this. I am saying we can discern what somebody is saying by "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks", and then judge righteously (judge does not mean to condemn Finn).

Eli rebuked his sons because of their sin,and not because they were unrepentant sinners,so stop moving the goal posts

So according to you we can discern and judge unrepentant sinners, but we cannot say anything to the person who talks hatefully or unloving, which you by the way have accused many universalists of.

Do you see your hypocrisy ?
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,761 posts, read 12,130,010 times
Reputation: 4335
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So according to you we can discern and judge unrepentant sinners, but we cannot say anything to the person who talks hatefully or unloving,
No, I specifically said you do and say whatever you want. I also said I had nothing further to say to you. I know your game, and I am not interested in playing. Sorry.
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,035,185 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, I specifically said you do and say whatever you want. I also said I had nothing further to say to you. I know your game, and I am not interested in playing. Sorry.
Playing no game Finn, i am pointing out to you that you have 2 opposing opinions, one where it's fine to judge someone and one where it's not.

The latter is usually applicable for you when someone challenges what you believe, speaks plainly their opinion to you about what you believe, or you you use it as an exit strategy when you are proved wrong.

Is there any difference between saying someone is hateful and someone who is unloving(is this the pc way to say someone is hateful) ?, the latter you have judged many universal believers as being, myself included.
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,761 posts, read 12,130,010 times
Reputation: 4335
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Playing no game Finn, i am pointing out to you that you have 2 opposing opinions, one where it's fine to judge someone and one where it's not.

The latter is usually applicable for you when someone challenges what you believe, speaks plainly their opinion to you about what you believe, or you you use it as an exit strategy when you are proved wrong.
I don't recall trying to excommunicate anyone from this "church", but I agree with apostole Paul, that there is a place for such action in real church.
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