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thank you,yes,indeed it is.I was very damaged and shattered from that doctrine of hell being a literal place,and the threats made against me when I was just a child.It took me a long,long time to get to a place where I could even proclaim God and Jesus again...and I do mean,a very long time.I wouldn't wish that on anyone.it's a form of mind-control and mental abuse.
Me too ...... (though I am not from the south - or even usa)
So God "relates" to the ages is what is meant? So if the ETer says that some will experience aionion punishment then they would be saying that some will experience punishment that relates to the ages. It could be all the rest of the ages then. So obviously you can't use the argument of "pertaining to the ages" as evidence that the wicked will only experience time in punishment.
Exactly ... Just like if i were to say that God is a timely God, would you then infer that i was saying God was not also eternal and outside of time altogether?
When i say God is a timely God i am saying that he works everything out in his own good time, and that all things are a part of his grand design ... I am not saying that he is a God who is relegated to existing in time.
It is the same when God is said to be "aionios", it means that he is the God of the age/ages ... Now what this means can be interpreted in different ways, but the meaning of the word "aionios" does not become "everlasting" simply because it is used in reference to the attributes of manifest deity.
God has a plan and a purpose for the age/ages ... Every age is particular in the grand design. There is a time and a place for everything under heaven, for everything there is a season. The ages have an important role to play in the unveiling of the mystery of Gods plan for his creation.
He is the God of the ages, and he is the God of ages, and he is the age abiding God, and he is the unseen and unknown God, and "aionios" can mean any and all of these things.
"Aionios correction" is the correction which takes part in the ages, and in particular the messianic ages when Christ rules the nations and God causes all things to be put under his feet.
It refers in general to the correction that we all receive in this life, as well as more specifically to the correction that the wicked and unbelieving must undergo in order for them to be made new again.
We all have to be destroyed and undergo correction of the ages, either in this life or after.
At the end of the ages all things will have been corrected and restored, and that is when the restoration of all things will have been accomplished and the father shall be all and in all ...
How do you know aionios is a limited amount of time?
Because for aionios, or any combination thereof, to mean "eternal" its noun form MUST mean eternal. It doesn’t. It is impossible for the adjective aionios to mean eternal. Aionios is an adjective. Just as the function of "American" (adj.) is to inform us of that which pertains to America (it is never greater than "America") thus also the function of "aionios" (adj) is to inform us of that which pertains to the eon(s). It is never greater than the eons. No aion is eternal. Therefore it is impossible for that which pertains to the eons to be eternal.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS --- A LIMITED PERIOD OF TIME
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Originally Posted by Eusebius Rom 16:25 Now to Him Who is able to establish you in accord with my evangel, and the heralding of Christ Jesus in accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times χρονοις eonian αιωνιοις,
The χρονοις is in the dative and is literally "to times"
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep
Yes, I agree with that Eusebius. I take issue with the aionios part being "pertaining to the ages".
trettep, in the verse after 16:25 of Romans is the verse which states that God is the eonian God.
Eonian is just an adjective. It cannot be greater than the noun from which it is derived (i.e., aion/eon).
Just as American is not greater than America, or Heavenly is not greater than Heaven, thus Eonian is not greater than eon.
And just as American, being the adjectival form of America means "pertaining to America" as in "Obama is the American president" we know his presidency pertains to America.
And just as Heavenly, being the adjectival form of Heaven, means "pertaining to heaven" as in "The heavenly angel visited Mary" we know the Angel's origin is pertaining to heaven.
Likewise Eonian, being the adjectival form of eon means "pertaining to the eon(s), as in "according to the injunction of the eonian God" we know that God's placership is pertaining to the eons.
And eonian chastening is pertaining to the eon in Matthew 25:46 as is the life of those NATIONS (not believers but nations).
God is not the author of confusion. It is confusing to state that aionios can mean eternal when applied to God but temporal when applied to mankind.
Exactly ... Just like if i were to say that God is a timely God, would you then infer that i was saying God was not also eternal and outside of time altogether?
When i say God is a timely God i am saying that he works everything out in his own good time, and that all things are a part of his grand design ... I am not saying that he is a God who is relegated to existing in time.
It is the same when God is said to be "aionios", it means that he is the God of the age/ages ... Now what this means can be interpreted in different ways, but the meaning of the word "aionios" does not become "everlasting" simply because it is used in reference to the attributes of manifest deity.
God has a plan and a purpose for the age/ages ... Every age is particular in the grand design. There is a time and a place for everything under heaven, for everything there is a season. The ages have an important role to play in the unveiling of the mystery of Gods plan for his creation.
He is the God of the ages, and he is the God of ages, and he is the age abiding God, and he is the unseen and unknown God, and "aionios" can mean any and all of these things.
"Aionios correction" is the correction which takes part in the ages, and in particular the messianic ages when Christ rules the nations and God causes all things to be put under his feet.
It refers in general to the correction that we all receive in this life, as well as more specifically to the correction that the wicked and unbelieving must undergo in order for them to be made new again.
We all have to be destroyed and undergo correction of the ages, either in this life or after.
At the end of the ages all things will have been corrected and restored, and that is when the restoration of all things will have been accomplished and the father shall be all and in all ...
I'm going to stick with the Aionios meaning a continuing point. I think to much confusion comes with the pertaining to the ages belief.
trettep, in the verse after 16:25 of Romans is the verse which states that God is the eonian God.
Eonian is just an adjective. It cannot be greater than the noun from which it is derived (i.e., aion/eon).
Just as American is not greater than America, or Heavenly is not greater than Heaven, thus Eonian is not greater than eon.
And just as American, being the adjectival form of America means "pertaining to America" as in "Obama is the American president" we know his presidency pertains to America.
And just as Heavenly, being the adjectival form of Heaven, means "pertaining to heaven" as in "The heavenly angel visited Mary" we know the Angel's origin is pertaining to heaven.
Likewise Eonian, being the adjectival form of eon means "pertaining to the eon(s), as in "according to the injunction of the eonian God" we know that God's placership is pertaining to the eons.
And eonian chastening is pertaining to the eon in Matthew 25:46 as is the life of those NATIONS (not believers but nations).
God is not the author of confusion. It is confusing to state that aionios can mean eternal when applied to God but temporal when applied to mankind.
Have you consider what I believe aionios to mean? I believe aionios only refers to a contining point. The endpoint is CONCEALED from us. Therefore, if I say that something is aionios it means it IS (NOW) and will CONTINUE to be into the NEXT AGE or adjacent age. It doesn't tell us how long except that it will be longer than the current age.
Have you consider what I believe aionios to mean? I believe aionios only refers to a contining point. The endpoint is CONCEALED from us. Therefore, if I say that something is aionios it means it IS (NOW) and will CONTINUE to be into the NEXT AGE or adjacent age. It doesn't tell us how long except that it will be longer than the current age.
Age does not mean "a continuing point." Therefore it is impossible for eonian to mean "pertaining to a continuing point."
trettep, come on man, you are a wise person. I've read plenty of nice wise posts from you. Don't let pride get in the way of your understanding more.
For Aionios to mean "a continuing point" one would have to say "God is a continuing point" in Romans 16:26.
No aionios doesn't mean continuing point it references a continuing point. In other words it we call God and AIONIOS GOD then it means that God is God NOW and will CONTINUE to be GOD beyond this age. It isn't a pride thing. It is about getting it right.
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AiÓn – aiÓnios --- a limited period of time
