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Old 12-23-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: RI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Only if you reject Christ and die in your sins. I think Twin has provinded more then enough evidence of it on this thread.
No he has not, all he's done is throw a few scriptures out there about the wrath of God, just your typical ET'er magnifying sin and what he thinks are the consequences of it, instead of magnifying the goodness,kindness,tolerance and patience of God that enabled us to repent.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
No he has not, all he's done is throw a few scriptures out there about the wrath of God, just your typical ET'er magnifying sin and what he thinks are the consequences of it, instead of magnifying the goodness,kindness,tolerance and patience of God that enabled us to repent.
Suit yourself. Words of Jesus are enough for me.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Lightbulb Regarding "the words of jesus"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Suit yourself. Words of Jesus are enough for me.
REGARDING THE WORDS OF JESUS

There is a Greek word that Young translates eternal and that is "aidios" as in Romans 1:20, “eternal power and Godhead.” It can mean eternal unless it is limited by a qualifying phrase. (see Young’s literal translation of the Bible)

It compares with the Hebrew word qedem in Deut. 33:27 which should read
“The eternal (qedem) God is my refuge, and underneath are the age-during (olam) arms. (see Young's literal translation)

The Hebrew word olam compares with the Greek word aionios.
Both of them refer to a limited period of time.

TIME AND ETERNITY (OLAM and AIONIOS) STEVENSON
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/

The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Here is the proof
HISTORY OF OPINIONS
and
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment
and
Chapter 3 - Origin of Endless Punishment

Jesus never allowed himself to use aidios in connection with punishment, even though He knew that aidios was understood by His non-Christian contemporaries as "eternal," nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then he carefully and expressly limited its meaning.

Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his non-Christian contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment! He never adopted the language of his day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.

If Jesus had wanted to convey the idea of “eternal” He would have used aidios, which was understood to mean eternal by Jesus' non-Christian contemporaries.

See God's plan for the ages of time as taught by Jesus's choice of Greek language forms
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-23-2010 at 12:17 PM.. Reason: addition
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
REGARDING THE WORDS OF JESUS

There is a Greek word that Young translates eternal and that is "aidios" as in Romans 1:20, “eternal power and Godhead.” It can mean eternal unless it is limited by a qualifying phrase. (see Young’s literal translation of the Bible)
And in Spanish adios means good-bye.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Exclamation Jesus refused to use aidios

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And in Spanish adios means good-bye.
But in Greek, Jesus's contemporaries, all of the non-Christian Jews, understood aidios to mean "eternal."

Jesus knew that, but He refused to use it even though He knew everyone would have understood it to mean "eternal."

Pretty significant IMO.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:25 PM
 
6,559 posts, read 5,138,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Any “hell” that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionion," (Matthew 25:46) which means age-during corrective chastisement.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective punishment) in Matthew 25:46
[color=blue]"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
RodgerTutt is right on this account. Here is Matthew 25:46 in Greek:

Quote:
46 καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Quote:
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Now the highlighted word, "kolasis" from Greek Lexicon:

Kolasis - Greek Lexicon

Notice definition 1: "correction," punishment, penalty

Translation: And these shall go into everlasting "corrective" punishment.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
RodgerTutt is right on this account. Here is Matthew 25:46 in Greek:
Now the highlighted word, "kolasis" from Greek Lexicon:

Kolasis - Greek Lexicon

Notice definition 1: "correction," punishment, penalty

Translation: And these shall go into everlasting "corrective" punishment.
punishment, torment. From kolazo; penal infliction -- punishment, torment. see GREEK kolazo

Strong's Greek Dictionary: 2851. kolasis

That is te Greek word we are talking about.

But of course you are at liberty to pick a more convenient translation if you must.

It is what it is, but even if you are right, "everlasting corrective punishment" doesn't sound too appealing, considering you have no idea of the severity of the punishement. The Bible gives some hints though, because it says people are punished in a lake of fire which was prepered for satan himself.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Default the results of the punishment are everlasting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
"everlasting corrective punishment" doesn't sound too appealing,
Consider the meaning of aionios
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS

I would say that the punishment is eonian, and the results of the punishment are everlasting.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:18 PM
 
1,492 posts, read 1,406,285 times
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If EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord,then is there any reason to believe that those words do not mean total reconciliation with God and all of His creation?
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Post Every tongue will confess that jesus is lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
If EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, then is there any reason to believe that those words do not mean total reconciliation with God and all of His creation?
I would say no, because we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord, especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

God wills (desires if you like) that all mankind be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)

God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1:11)

As in Adam all are dying; thus also in Christ will all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)

"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the salvation of all mankind)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

The salvation of everyone will occur because it is God Himself Who will achieve it.

After ETers get done trying to convince everyone about what God will not do, God is going to do it anyway.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-23-2010 at 01:46 PM.. Reason: addition
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