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Old 01-03-2011, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
What proof is there that they have not heard?
It is not that they have not been preached to-for they have.



Mercy, sweet as you appear to be, there is no way to politely address a question as incredibly naive as that. I am astonished....shocked, actually, beyond words that someone could actually ask such a question.

 
Old 01-03-2011, 11:52 AM
 
20,427 posts, read 15,792,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post



Mercy, sweet as you appear to be, there is no way to politely address a question as incredibly naive as that. I am astonished....shocked, actually, beyond words that someone could actually ask such a question.
Refer back to post #76, at the bottom.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 05:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Refer back to post #76, at the bottom.
Quote:
God has made Himself known through His creation. (Romans 1:18-20; Romans 10:14-18)Therefore everyone is without excuse. Everyone who has the mental capacity to come to the point of God consciousness - the point where you can conceive of the existence of God, is held responsible by God to decide whether he wants to know more about God. If he does, then God will get the gospel to him so that he can hear about Jesus Christ. Geographic isolation is no barrier for God. If that person has no desire to learn about God at the point of God consciousness, then God has no responsibiltiy to get the gospel to him.
okay, I read the link provided and could not comprehend no 8:

Quote:
8. Application of the doctrine of individual responsibility. The person asking the question "what about the heathen or those who have not heard" has heard about Christ, [huh? ] so is responsible to believe the gospel [huh? ] regardless of those who may not have heard the message [huh? ] (John 3:16-18; Acts 16:25-31).
This is going right over my head--I mean I know what it says but it makes absolutely no sense to me, hence the "huh's". But let's set that aside for the moment. Let's look at the billions of people over the millennia who have lived outside the Mediterranean all over the world BC and AD (until the Missionary Movement came in about the 1700's) and so never heard the first word about Jesus or the gospel. Now the link says these people had the law written in their hearts, as per Paul's epistle and so had the gospel preached to them in some way I'm not certain of. But let's take a look at one isolated example among literally thousands which could be set against this principle: in many tribes in Africa it was considered honorable to kill your enemy and then eat them. The belief was that by eating your enemy you would absorb their desirable qualities. Now will they be judged for this under God's law supposedly written in their hearts, or will their own belief prevail that they were doing a good and proper thing, something taught to them from childhood. Which will be the criteria by which God will judge them? And remember we are talking about literally tens of billions of people who have operated under similar belief systems totally outside the Gospel. Will they all be eternally tormented or will they be saved?
 
Old 01-03-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,398,713 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
okay, I read the link provided and could not comprehend no 8:



This is going right over my head--I mean I know what it says but it makes absolutely no sense to me, hence the "huh's". But let's set that aside for the moment. Let's look at the billions of people over the millennia who have lived outside the Mediterranean all over the world BC and AD (until the Missionary Movement came in about the 1700's) and so never heard the first word about Jesus or the gospel. Now the link says these people had the law written in their hearts, as per Paul's epistle and so had the gospel preached to them in some way I'm not certain of. But let's take a look at one isolated example among literally thousands which could be set against this principle: in many tribes in Africa it was considered honorable to kill your enemy and then eat them. The belief was that by eating your enemy you would absorb their desirable qualities. Now will they be judged for this under God's law supposedly written in their hearts, or will their own belief prevail that they were doing a good and proper thing, something taught to them from childhood. Which will be the criteria by which God will judge them? And remember we are talking about literally tens of billions of people who have operated under similar belief systems totally outside the Gospel. Will they all be eternally tormented or will they be saved?
Lol. Huh is all I did when I listened to Tradition's answers.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:05 PM
 
20,427 posts, read 15,792,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
okay, I read the link provided and could not comprehend no 8:



This is going right over my head--I mean I know what it says but it makes absolutely no sense to me, hence the "huh's". But let's set that aside for the moment. Let's look at the billions of people over the millennia who have lived outside the Mediterranean all over the world BC and AD (until the Missionary Movement came in about the 1700's) and so never heard the first word about Jesus or the gospel. Now the link says these people had the law written in their hearts, as per Paul's epistle and so had the gospel preached to them in some way I'm not certain of. But let's take a look at one isolated example among literally thousands which could be set against this principle: in many tribes in Africa it was considered honorable to kill your enemy and then eat them. The belief was that by eating your enemy you would absorb their desirable qualities. Now will they be judged for this under God's law supposedly written in their hearts, or will their own belief prevail that they were doing a good and proper thing, something taught to them from childhood. Which will be the criteria by which God will judge them? And remember we are talking about literally tens of billions of people who have operated under similar belief systems totally outside the Gospel. Will they all be eternally tormented or will they be saved?
8. Application of the doctrine of individual responsibility. The person asking the question "what about the heathen or those who have not heard" has heard about Christ, so is responsible to believe the gospel regardless of those who may not have heard the message (John 3:16-18; Acts 16:25-31).

This is straight forward. You who are asking the question 'What about the heathen' have yourself heard the gospel and you are responsible to believe it whether someone else has heard the gospel or not.

Look. Basically it comes down to this. God has made Himself known through His creation. Therefore, anyone who reaches the point where they can conceive of the existence of God, has the responsibility to decide if they want to understand this supreme being that they now conceive of. It they do, then regardless of geographical isolation, God will get the gospel to them, so that they can make a decision about Christ. God knew from eternity past who, at the point of God consciousness would desire to know more, and made provision to get the gospel to them. This is all a part of the divine decree of God, who took all of man's volitional decisions into consideration and entered those decisions into His plan.

God had made Himself known to man from the beginning. Not only through His creation, but through direct communication, visions, dreams, prophets. As the population increased and man spread out, knowledge of God went with him. As whole groups of people(s) forgot about God and turned to idols, the gospel was forgotten. It is entirely possible for whole groups of people for generations to have no desire to know God and prefer idols. But at any time in human history, no matter where on earth he is, if even one person has a desire to know God, then God in eternity past already made provision for the positive volition of that person. He without interfering with human volition saw to it that in the outworking of human history, the gospel would get to those who went positive at the point of God consciousness. This does not mean that they will necessarly believe the gospel message, but only that when they came to conceive of the existence of a supreme being they were curious to know more.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-03-2011 at 07:10 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,309,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
But at any time in human history, no matter where on earth he is, if even one person has a desire to know God, then God in eternity past already made provision for the positive volition of that person. He without interfering with human volition saw to it that in the outworking of human history, the gospel would get to those who went positive at the point of God consciousness. This does not mean that they will necessarily believe the gospel message, but only that when they came to conceive of the existence of a supreme being they were curious to know more.
Yes! Excellent choice of words!
 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,398,713 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Yes! Excellent choice of words!
That answer use to work for me, too.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 07:05 PM
 
20,427 posts, read 15,792,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Yes! Excellent choice of words!
Thanks sciotamicks. Sometimes the right words just seem to come together.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,600,910 times
Reputation: 1584
After reading the last few posts, I feel that either sarcasm has flown over a few heads or my brain is gone to sleep .........
 
Old 01-03-2011, 07:21 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,939,402 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The purpose of this post is to simply direct the readers attention to a well written paper by Alan W. Gomes, Assistant Professor of Historical Theology at Talbot School of Theology, La Mirada, California. He received his Ph.D in historical theology from Fuller Theological Seminary.

In this paper, Dr. Gomes refutes the teaching of Annihilationism. In presenting the orthodox position that those who do not accept God's offer of salvation in Christ will suffer conscious, everlasting torment, Universalism is also refuted. But the focus is on Annihilationism.

I hope that the reader will carefully read the paper, which is in two parts, completely and carefully. Without further comment, here is Dr. Gomes paper.

Evangelicals and the Annihilation of Hell Part One

Evangelicals and the Annihilation of Hell Part Two
ah for '''''''',what a way to bring in the new year,''hey everyone God has set up life for people to be burned forever,and because He is All Knowing,He knew this before it was even goin to happen'',that alone should show you how full of bull that doctrine is.

why would god set up life knowing this was goin to happen????
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