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Old 01-03-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,434 times
Reputation: 437

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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsong View Post
after reading the last few posts, i feel that either sarcasm has flown over a few heads or my brain is gone to sleep .........


 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:25 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,930,857 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
8. Application of the doctrine of individual responsibility. The person asking the question "what about the heathen or those who have not heard" has heard about Christ, so is responsible to believe the gospel regardless of those who may not have heard the message (John 3:16-18; Acts 16:25-31).

This is straight forward. You who are asking the question 'What about the heathen' have yourself heard the gospel and you are responsible to believe it whether someone else has heard the gospel or not.

Look. Basically it comes down to this. God has made Himself known through His creation. Therefore, anyone who reaches the point where they can conceive of the existence of God, has the responsibility to decide if they want to understand this supreme being that they now conceive of. It they do, then regardless of geographical isolation, God will get the gospel to them, so that they can make a decision about Christ. God knew from eternity past who, at the point of God consciousness would desire to know more, and made provision to get the gospel to them. This is all a part of the divine decree of God, who took all of man's volitional decisions into consideration and entered those decisions into His plan.

God had made Himself known to man from the beginning. Not only through His creation, but through direct communication, visions, dreams, prophets. As the population increased and man spread out, knowledge of God went with him. As whole groups of people(s) forgot about God and turned to idols, the gospel was forgotten. It is entirely possible for whole groups of people for generations to have no desire to know God and prefer idols. But at any time in human history, no matter where on earth he is, if even one person has a desire to know God, then God in eternity past already made provision for the positive volition of that person. He without interfering with human volition saw to it that in the outworking of human history, the gospel would get to those who went positive at the point of God consciousness. This does not mean that they will necessarly believe the gospel message, but only that when they came to conceive of the existence of a supreme being they were curious to know more.
many people do beleive in God but not christianity,and still will never hear of christ yet beleive in God
 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:28 PM
 
20,290 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
ah for '''''''',what a way to bring in the new year,''hey everyone God has set up life for people to be burned forever,and because He is All Knowing,He knew this before it was even goin to happen'',that alone should show you how full of bull that doctrine is.

why would god set up life knowing this was goin to happen????
It's all about the angelic conflict. It is the reason why man and human history exists.

The Angelic Conflict; the Spiritual Warfare
 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:32 PM
 
20,290 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
many people do beleive in God but not christianity,and still will never hear of christ yet beleive in God
Believing in God the Father does not save anyone. It is faith in Jesus Christ who is God the Son through which eternal salvation is obtained.

And the god that many people believe in is not the true God.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,434 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It's all about the angelic conflict. It is the reason why man and human history exists.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/885157-angelic-conflict-spiritual-warfare.html

And here is the most likely story: Duncan Heaster: The Real Devil

It covers the history of the devil in the Old Testament, Babylonian influence on Jewish thinking, biblical facts on the devil and demons, the origin of evil, possession, the middle ages and it's fascination with Satan, and so much more.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 08:28 PM
 
17,658 posts, read 8,860,686 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It's all about the angelic conflict.
This is nothing but foolishness from deceived minds.
I would suggest that you seek the truth of his Word.

 
Old 01-03-2011, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
This is nothing but foolishness from deceived minds.
I would suggest that you seek the truth of his Word.

One's truth is another man's deception.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 09:24 PM
 
17,658 posts, read 8,860,686 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
One's truth is another man's deception.
Is that the truth, or are you deceiving me.

 
Old 01-03-2011, 09:28 PM
 
10,177 posts, read 10,538,351 times
Reputation: 3015
I really want to comprehend this so please bear with me as I take this in sections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
8. Application of the doctrine of individual responsibility. The person asking the question "what about the heathen or those who have not heard" has heard about Christ, so is responsible to believe the gospel regardless of those who may not have heard the message (John 3:16-18; Acts 16:25-31).

This is straight forward. You who are asking the question 'What about the heathen' have yourself heard the gospel and you are responsible to believe it whether someone else has heard the gospel or not.
Okay, now I get the point, because the word "yourself" was missing from the original quote in the link.

Quote:
Look. Basically it comes down to this. God has made Himself known through His creation.
Granted. "The heavens declare Thy glory, O Lord". Everyone who has looked up to the sky should have realized that there was someone or something greater than themselves. But early man didn't know who God the Father and Jesus were. They just worshipped the sun and the moon. Will God recognize that they were making a good faith attempt to worship Him even though that worship expressed itself in worshipping heavenly bodies? Or are you saying that God the Father divinely revealed to them by means of dreams, inner voices, prophets or visions the existence of His Son, Jesus?

Quote:
Therefore, anyone who reaches the point where they can conceive of the existence of God, has the responsibility to decide if they want to understand this supreme being that they now conceive of.
Yes, tens of billions of pagans reached adulthood and therefore had the capacity to conceive of the existence of a "supreme being", which places us back to the worshipping of the sun and moon.

Quote:
If they do, then regardless of geographical isolation, God will get the gospel to them, so that they can make a decision about Christ.
This is where I derail. How exactly did God get to billions of heathens outside the Mediterranean world (the "known" world) the gospel (I presume of Jesus Christ)? In what way did God say to these heathens, "I have a Son named Jesus and He will die for you about 1000 years from now (assuming the year 1000 BC, the location Central America and the people Mayans (Pre-Classic period (c. 2000 BC to 250 AD) especially when nothing in their vast hieroglyphics makes any mention of a Supreme being named Jesus.

Quote:
God knew from eternity past who, at the point of God consciousness would desire to know more, and made provision to get the gospel to them.
This is all a part of the divine decree of God, who took all of man's volitional decisions into consideration and entered those decisions into His plan. God had made Himself known to man from the beginning. Not only through His creation, but through direct communication, visions, dreams, prophets. As the population increased and man spread out, knowledge of God went with him. As whole groups of people(s) forgot about God and turned to idols, the gospel was forgotten. It is entirely possible for whole groups of people for generations to have no desire to know God and prefer idols. But at any time in human history, no matter where on earth he is, if even one person has a desire to know God, then God in eternity past already made provision for the positive volition of that person. He without interfering with human volition saw to it that in the outworking of human history, the gospel would get to those who went positive at the point of God consciousness. This does not mean that they will necessarly believe the gospel message, but only that when they came to conceive of the existence of a supreme being they were curious to know more.
So it seems to me that you're saying these billions of indigenous civilizations who certainly didn't know the first thing about Jesus' existence did not have to in order to be justified in God's sight, but demonstrated an affinity for wanting to worship Jesus through the worship of their own gods. Would that be a correct assumption?
 
Old 01-03-2011, 09:45 PM
 
17,658 posts, read 8,860,686 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I really want to comprehend this so please bear with me as I take this in sections.

So it seems to me that you're saying these billions of indigenous civilizations who certainly didn't know the first thing about Jesus' existence did not have to in order to be justified in God's sight, but demonstrated an affinity for wanting to worship Jesus through the worship of their own gods. Would that be a correct assumption?
He does have a convoluted way of describing things.
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