U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-03-2011, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,300,647 times
Reputation: 420

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Is that the truth, or are you deceiving me.

Truthfully deceptive ....

 
Old 01-04-2011, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,588,203 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
ah for '''''''',what a way to bring in the new year,''hey everyone God has set up life for people to be burned forever,and because He is All Knowing,He knew this before it was even goin to happen'',that alone should show you how full of bull that doctrine is.

why would god set up life knowing this was goin to happen????
ROFLOL! Thanks for making me laugh Yes, a brilliant Master plan, eh?
 
Old 01-04-2011, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,588,203 times
Reputation: 1584
Thrillobyte posted:
Quote:
This is where I derail. How exactly did God get to billions of heathens outside the Mediterranean world (the "known" world) the gospel (I presume of Jesus Christ)? In what way did God say to these heathens, "I have a Son named Jesus and He will die for you about 1000 years from now (assuming the year 1000 BC, the location Central America and the people Mayans (Pre-Classic period (c. 2000 BC to 250 AD) especially when nothing in their vast hieroglyphics makes any mention of a Supreme being named Jesus.
Yes, that's right where my train jumps the track as well. For some reason, I can't stop laughing (really).
 
Old 01-04-2011, 02:54 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
This is nothing but foolishness from deceived minds.
I would suggest that you seek the truth of his Word.

To the contrary. The angelic conflict is the very reason that God created man with free will, in order to demonstrate to the angels that He was justified in sentencing Satan to the lake of fire. He didn't have to demonstrate it, but He chose to. The details are provided in the link I provided.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,588,203 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. The angelic conflict is the very reason that God created man with free will, in order to demonstrate to the angels that He was justified in sentencing Satan to the lake of fire. He didn't have to demonstrate it, but He chose to. The details are provided in the link I provided.
Well, Mike - now I'm certain that you don't understand the bible because man clearly does not have individual free will and it's not too hard to "get that" if you've studied the scriptures at any length, most especially the book of Romans.
Only God has the power to bind and loose.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,644,985 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Well, Mike - now I'm certain that you don't understand the bible because man clearly does not have individual free will and it's not too hard to "get that" if you've studied the scriptures at any length, most especially the book of Romans.
Only God has the power to bind and loose.
I believe we if we are going to do something we should say "God willing" and not "as I will".
 
Old 01-04-2011, 07:46 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,336 posts, read 20,076,279 times
Reputation: 2114
Default Father have mercy on us

Watching "Punishment" on the History channel at the minute. No prizes for guessing who loved torturing folk..

If you believe in ET you really need to watch it, and then ask yourself some serious questions.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 09:22 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Well, Mike - now I'm certain that you don't understand the bible because man clearly does not have individual free will and it's not too hard to "get that" if you've studied the scriptures at any length, most especially the book of Romans.
Only God has the power to bind and loose.
To the contrary. Man's volition is completely evident in the Scriptures. The very first test of man's free will was in the garden when God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and then gave Adam a command not to eat it. It was to give Adam's free will something with which to work. Do not make something more of free will then what it is. It is simply the ability to choose between one thing or another thing. It is volition.

God created man in His own image. God has essence which is real though invisible. As the shadow image of God our essence is also real but invisible. And like God, that essence can be defined only by its characteristics. These characteristics include self-consciousness, mentality, volition - free will, conscience, and emotion.

As God is sovereign, God gave man free will.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,912,198 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Well, Mike - now I'm certain that you don't understand the bible because man clearly does not have individual free will and it's not too hard to "get that" if you've studied the scriptures at any length, most especially the book of Romans.
Only God has the power to bind and loose.
So you are saying God wrote this post, not you, because you do not have free will and God controls everything? God is not the creator of contradiction yet we contradict each other you really need to examine what you say before you say it.
 
Old 01-04-2011, 10:47 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I really want to comprehend this so please bear with me as I take this in sections.



Okay, now I get the point, because the word "yourself" was missing from the original quote in the link.



Granted. "The heavens declare Thy glory, O Lord". Everyone who has looked up to the sky should have realized that there was someone or something greater than themselves. But early man didn't know who God the Father and Jesus were. They just worshipped the sun and the moon. Will God recognize that they were making a good faith attempt to worship Him even though that worship expressed itself in worshipping heavenly bodies? Or are you saying that God the Father divinely revealed to them by means of dreams, inner voices, prophets or visions the existence of His Son, Jesus?
Since the antediluvian civilzation was destroyed by God in the flood, there were seven people on the earth after the flood. Noah and family. God communicated with Noah. As the human population began to grow again, God provided knowledge of Himself. And He reiterated the fact that in the future a Messiah would come into the world to provide salvation. Those who believed the promise were looking ahead to the cross. The system of animal sacrifices which God had instituted immediately after Adam had sinned, continued. These sacrifices were a picture of Christ.

But man again began to forget about God and turned to idol worship - the sun and moon for example. In due course of time whole groups of people(s), had no desire to know the true God.

But God knows the human heart and He knew and had always known who would at the point of God consciousness have some bit, some spark of a curiosity about truly knowing God, or if they prefered to just worship their idols.

Look, today in the United States, where the gospel abounds, a great number of people have no interest in the true God. There are people who flat out reject God. There are people who prefer to worship Satan. There are people who prefer to worship 'mother earth'. There are people who don't believe in any kind of a supreme being.


Quote:
Yes, tens of billions of pagans reached adulthood and therefore had the capacity to conceive of the existence of a "supreme being", which places us back to the worshipping of the sun and moon.
See above.

Quote:
This is where I derail. How exactly did God get to billions of heathens outside the Mediterranean world (the "known" world) the gospel (I presume of Jesus Christ)? In what way did God say to these heathens, "I have a Son named Jesus and He will die for you about 1000 years from now (assuming the year 1000 BC, the location Central America and the people Mayans (Pre-Classic period (c. 2000 BC to 250 AD) especially when nothing in their vast hieroglyphics makes any mention of a Supreme being named Jesus.
This goes back to the fact that as the human race grew and spread out, the gospel went with man. But as people began to turn their backs on God and forget Him, they forgot the gospel message. But as I said, from eternity past, where God in His omnscience saw positive volition at the point of God conciousness, He designed into His plan of redemption, that in the outworking of human history, events would play out so that the gospel would get to that positive volition so that information pertaining to Jesus Christ would be presented.

God knew that whole populations of people in a given geographical area would not exhibit, even for generations, a desire to know God at the point of God consciousness. In areas where nothing but negitive volition exists God is not responsible to get the gospel to those areas.

And as I said, positive volition at the point of God consciousness, does not necessarily mean that there will be positive volition at the point of gospel hearig.


Quote:
So it seems to me that you're saying these billions of indigenous civilizations who certainly didn't know the first thing about Jesus' existence did not have to in order to be justified in God's sight, but demonstrated an affinity for wanting to worship Jesus through the worship of their own gods. Would that be a correct assumption?

No. Justification occurs only when a person believes in Jesus Christ for salvation.

The simplist way I can express it is that where and when in the outworking of human history positive volition exists at the point of God consciousness, God will have from eternity past decreed that, using mans volition, events in human history would and will play out to get the gospel to that positive volition. And once again, positive volition at the moment of God consciousness does not mean that there will be positive volition toward the gospel. The gospel simply gives the positive volition that existed at that point of God consciousness the opportunity to hear and know the truth concerning Jesus Christ and the issue of salvation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top