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Old 12-31-2010, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As per 1 Tim 4:9, Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men in that through His work on the cross of paying the penalty for mans sins, He made salvation possible for all men. He is the Savior especially of believers in that only those who believe in Christ for salvation, are actually saved.

As per 1 Timothy 2:4-6, Jesus Christ purchased all mankind from the slavemarket of sin. Sin is not an issue in salvation. The barrier of sin which stood beween God and man has been eliminated. But everyone must make a decision to walk over the line where the barrier of sin used to be. That is done by placing your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. No one is automatically saved.

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.'

Jesus died for the world. Only those who believe in Him will have eternal life.
In other words, you too are teaching that "God will NOT save all mankind" even though Jesus "ransomed all mankind."

And you teach that in actuality that "God is NOT the Saviour of all mankind, JUST believers."

1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say that "God will save all mankind if they just make the right choice." It gives the reason why it is that "God will save all mankind . . . for . . . Christ ransomed all."

Mike, you are disobedient to 1 Timothy 4:11. Does it not even cause you to pause?

 
Old 12-31-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
I believe Jesus was separated from God as He endured the agony and pain of the burden of sin..and therefore separated from God by sin.(not His sin--the burden of our sin which He took from us...) "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?" was a cry from the flesh, then "It is finished"is the cry of victory.
Correctly stated.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 09:24 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes. The penalty for sin is spiritual death, which is separation from God. As long as Jesus Christ was in contact with even one sin, God the Father had to break contact with Jesus. From 12:00 noon until about 3:00PM, the last three hours that He was on the cross, Jesus actually bore all the sins of every person in all of human history, And it was unimaginally painful to Jesus.

When Jesus had finished paying the penalty, He shouted 'It is finished'. 'Tetelestai' A Greek word having to do with the completion of a financial transaction.

Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


You may want to consider keeping some type of reference to this post when the antagonists say something idiotic .i.e ..... about you believing a hateful God.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 09:29 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Good read. Thanks.
You're welcome Finn.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
I believe Jesus was separated from God as He endured the agony and pain of the burden of sin..and therefore separated from God by sin.(not His sin--the burden of our sin which He took from us...) "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?" was a cry from the flesh, then "It is finished"is the cry of victory.
I don't think it could have been a cry from the flesh because the "flesh" is a term given to that which is carnal and the carnal mind hates God. We know that Jesus would have known He was going to say these words since they are recorded in:

Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Jesus is said to be the Sin OFFERING for Israel. So I believe Jesus here is crying out AS Israel. He is the mediator. So while He is being villified by the masses, I see Him here pleading with God as their sin offering. Such that even in His most fragile moment He is not thinking about Himself or His own plight but that of Israel. Israel being Spiritual Israel.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post


You may want to consider keeping some type of reference to this post when the antagonists say something idiotic .i.e ..... about you believing a hateful God.
Thanks twin. Yes, I do keep a record of my threads now and list the post number of my posts on those threads.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 12:02 PM
 
5,408 posts, read 4,660,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
What does it matter. You still believe that eternal life and immortality is a reward for sinning.
The wages of dying in a state of willful sin, whether one professes Jesus or not, is the eternal torments of hell.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 12:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
so are the people in hell going to be alive or not?
Yes -- and don't try to say this is just a parable. Parables don't use real names. This is a real account of two people who once lived on earth.

Luke 16
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
 
Old 12-31-2010, 12:56 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
The wages of dying in a state of willful sin, whether one professes Jesus or not, is the eternal torments of hell.
If one has believed in Christ for salvation, then salvation is eternally secure and cannot be lost. Once saved, always saved. All sin has already been paid for and is not an issue in salvation.

Hebrews 10:12 'but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.'

Hebrews 10:14 'For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who have been sanctified.'

The believer is positionally in Christ and is therefore eternally secure in that position. All sin having been paid for already, cannot be judged a second time. The only issue in salvation is faith in Christ.

Salvation is a free gift from God. John 4:10; Rom 5:15; 2 Cor 9:15; Acts 11:17; Rev 22:17.

The gifts of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29 'for the gifts and the callng of God are irrevocable.'
 
Old 12-31-2010, 01:10 PM
 
5,408 posts, read 4,660,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If one has believed in Christ for salvation, then salvation is eternally secure and cannot be lost. Once saved, always saved
No, Mike. Your teaching will lead people to the torments of hell. Anyone who dies in willful sin will go there. No rebellion will be allowed in God's heaven, so the only place for such people is hell fire. Simply professing Jesus' name won't save anyone, even the Universalists do that. It takes a real blood-bought born again experience to walk the narrow road that leads to life; this is God's highway of holiness and righteousness. All other roads lead to destruction.
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