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Old 01-01-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Do you really think Moses and the prophets preached communism?

You are saying things you don't even believe yourself. Why?



That's right, you do not get it, and if you as long as you deny the obvious, you will not get it.
Why doesn't Abraham tell the rich man that he is condemned because he doesn't believe? He tells him that he is there because he lived a luxurious life.. This was his condemnation, living in selfishness. And he didn't follow the scriptures' message to not live in selfishness.

I think what is being said in this parable, is that God teaches man to love his neighbor and God. That means helping one another. The rich man didn't listen.

Blessings,
brian

 
Old 01-01-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Your not asking ... you're accusing God of being unfair.
I don't think God gets angry when we ask questions about His ways... do you?
If God says that He does what is fair, then He also wants us to learn His ways. If something doesn't seem fair, there's nothing wrong with asking.

And if an answer cannot be given without getting angry, what does that tell us?

Blessings,
brian
 
Old 01-01-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,880,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Why doesn't Abraham tell the rich man that he is condemned because he doesn't believe? He tells him that he is there because he lived a luxurious life.. This was his condemnation, living in selfishness. And he didn't follow the scriptures' message to not live in selfishness.

I think what is being said in this parable, is that God teaches man to love his neighbor and God. That means helping one another. The rich man didn't listen.

Blessings,
brian
The rich man didn't listen to who? If he had listened, and believed then he would not have been in the wrong side of Hades.

He didn't listen to Moses and the prophets, who spoke about God, not communism. Abraham told the rich man that his brothers must listen to Moses and the prophets if they want to avoid the punishment the rich man was in.
 
Old 01-01-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The rich man didn't listen to who? If he had listened, and believed then he would not have been in the wrong side of Hades.

He didn't listen to Moses and the prophets, who spoke about God, not communism. Abraham told the rich man that his brothers must listen to Moses and the prophets if they want to avoid the punishment the rich man was in.
He didn't listen to the writings; the writings told him to love his neighbor and God.
His punishment was for hoarding his goods against his neighbor. Not simply for not believing in God. Abraham told him why he was there: because he lived in selfishness.

Blessings,
Brian
 
Old 01-01-2011, 12:47 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
1 Timothy 6:16-17




Again I ask, how can the hundred billion people who have ever lived who have never heard of Jesus be condemned to hell for eternity for something that was totally out of their control???
Thrillobyte,

That question is one of the ones that lead me to UR, ---- I do agree with Mike that everyone will be made alive, I believe that all souls will die, I also believe that there is a difference between soul and spirit, what I think is annihilated is the soul, the soul has a close connection to the body and needs to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and the spirit is saved ---- resurrection is about regeneration not having a place of .

The greek word that is translated as soul is psuche and spirit is pneuma

Note in these verses the difference between soul and spirit 1 Cor 15:44, Heb 4:12,
 
Old 01-01-2011, 12:51 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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[quote=thrillobyte;17215137]1 Timothy 6:16-17


Quote: From post #63 Me.
Everyone lives forever.

Quote:
Thillobyte

1 Timothy 6:16-17


Quote:
which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
God has intrinsic immortality. But God has given immortality to the human soul. Man's body is mortal but will become immortal at the resurrection of his body. Also, at this point in human history, only Jesus Christ has been resurrected, and so His body is immortal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: From post #63
Instead, those who reject Christ stand on their own human righteousness -

Quote:
Again I ask, how can the hundred billion people who have ever lived who have never heard of Jesus be condemned to hell for eternity for something that was totally out of their control???
God has made Himself known through His creation. (Romans 1:18-20; Romans 10:14-18)Therefore everyone is without excuse. Everyone who has the mental capacity to come to the point of God consciousness - the point where you can conceive of the existence of God, is held responsible by God to decide whether he wants to know more about God. If he does, then God will get the gospel to him so that he can hear about Jesus Christ. Geographic isolation is no barrier for God. If that person has no desire to learn about God at the point of God consciousness, then God has no responsibiltiy to get the gospel to him.

Read this:
Doctrine of Heathenism
 
Old 01-01-2011, 01:07 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Thrillobyte,

That question is one of the ones that lead me to UR, ---- I do agree with Mike that everyone will be made alive, I believe that all souls will die, I also believe that there is a difference between soul and spirit, what I think is annihilated is the soul, the soul has a close connection to the body and needs to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and the spirit is saved ---- resurrection is about regeneration not having a place of .

The greek word that is translated as soul is psuche and spirit is pneuma

Note in these verses the difference between soul and spirit 1 Cor 15:44, Heb 4:12,
Everyone will not be made alive. That refers to eternal life in God's presence (salvation actually occurs at the very moment of faith in Christ. You have eternal life at the moment of faith. Not some asinine age-during life, but eternal life - God's very own life.) But all unbelievers will have their bodies resurrected to spend eternity in hell. The unbelievers soul is immortal and will come out of the compartment of 'Torments' in Hades to rejoin his resurrected body and then stand before Christ at the Great White Throne, and then sent away into eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

It is the human spirit which is regenerated at the moment of faith in Christ. Not the soul. It is the human spirit which has the ability to have a relationship with God. It is the Holy Spirits imputing of a human spirit to the one who believes in Christ, and to which God imputes His perfect righteousness and His eternal life that is what is called being born again.

At physical death, the body goes into the ground. The soul of the unbeliever goes to Hades. The soul and human spirit of the believer goes into the presence of God.
 
Old 01-01-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,880,770 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
He didn't listen to the writings; the writings told him to love his neighbor and God.
His punishment was for hoarding his goods against his neighbor. Not simply for not believing in God. Abraham told him why he was there: because he lived in selfishness.
Hoarding and selfishness are among the countless fruits of unbelief.
 
Old 01-01-2011, 01:18 PM
 
37,500 posts, read 25,238,629 times
Reputation: 5855
The orthodox view of hell is the creation of Satan. The only entity capable of considering an infinite eternal torment(ET) as an acceptable and just consequence for a finite creation . . . is Satan. Anyone who loves and worships an entity that considers ET an acceptable and just consequence . . . is worshiping Satan. It is inescapable. I could neither love nor worship such a heinous entity!
 
Old 01-01-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Hoarding and selfishness are among the countless fruits of unbelief.
Yes, and that was what got him locked up..

Communism is just having things in common, or what children call "sharing." Parents are known to share their things with their kids; this is how Christians ought to be as well, thinking about the common good.

Believing is easy, and requires no action. Love requires action.
Try to imagine someone who believes in God but doesn't love his neighbor. Ridiculous! And yet this is probably what the rich man was like. Hearing the message every saturday, but never helping those in need.

Blessings,
brian
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