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Old 01-01-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,568,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What a wondeful witness. Your beautiful posts make my heart sing, sparrow. God bless wonderful sister. I can't rep you yet.
I tried to rep her also, and could not. If I could have only one soul with me at my time of death - she'd be the one I'd choose.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,628,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Thank you, Sparrow, for your heartfelt reply and taking the time write it. This is the type of feedback that I appreciate. The God that you worship seems a lot more respectable than the one that Allen does. You seem full of love, while.... well, I won't say it. I think you know what I mean.

God Bless you and Happy New Year!
She is amazing. I praise God for the work with her. I hope he brings me to that level.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,465 posts, read 7,555,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
What I was doing was speaking truth and you couldn't handle it. If your beliefs in God are hanging onto whether or not folk burn in hell for an eternity, I would say your a lukewarm believer. How could you have your faith in jeopardy because your concerned about what happens to people who are way past dead and either in heaven or hell?! We either go to Heaven or Hell for an eternity. Period. Plain and simple. But I'm focusing on my salvation and not on other peoples. I preach to others in hopes they will get the word and it will speak to their hearts. But I'm not going to lie and transform the word of God to get or drive more unbelievers to accept Christ. That is just leading them down a bad path because nothing will have changed. We need to know the consequences of our sin and living in it. We must repent always and must have full faith in God to take care of things. We will NOT have all the answers.
You essentially compared over 7 billion people on earth to the satanists, self mutilators, and atheists you have met. Are you really that closed minded? Of course my attitude towards God is swayed by the question of eternity. EVERYBODY'S MIND IS. If it was not, religion would not matter! I do not want to spend eternity with a god that would damn 98% of his creation to hell, as you believe He will. That is my love as a human being. If you are comfortable with being in Heaven knowing that, and it is actually true, more power to you. The God that I want to believe in has a LOT more to offer his creation.

I have full faith that God will take care of things. Just not to the sick extent you believe he will.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:35 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,581,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Thank you, Sparrow, for your heartfelt reply and taking the time write it. This is the type of feedback that I appreciate. The God that you worship seems a lot more respectable than the one that Allen does. You seem full of love, while.... well, I won't say it. I think you know what I mean.

God Bless you and Happy New Year!

Thank YOU for taking the time to read it and for letting me share a part of me. Your opening post really encouraged me to do so, and I appreciate that more than you can imagine. Much love to you on your journey.
thanks again, and Happy New Year to you too.
love,
sparrow
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:40 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,581,672 times
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Mystic, Heartsong and trettep... wow guys. thank you so much for the beautiful encouragement. That His love worked through me to touch you, really humbled me and at the same time made my heart smile. Hope that makes sense. You guys continuously strengthen me over here on my path.
peace,
sparrow
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I am a 99.9 percent UR believer, with a sliver of doubt reserved for the possibility of annihilation of the extreme wicked, those who practice cruelty and hold people in bondage with fear, torture, and the like. If there is annihilation, I would bet it could include many church people who take advantage of people by using fear of eternal torment and extort money from them (robbing widows and children, spiritually speaking). But there are so many UR scriptures, and God is more merciful than me, so I lean toward forgiveness for all. I think everyone will be held to account (be ashamed of) his/her sin whether in this world or the world to come. I don't fear that people are getting away with sin because the Light will always shine and the truth cannot be hidden from the Light of God. People can hide their wicked thoughts and their selfish motives for a time, most especially in this world - but not forever. Knowing that there is no hiding forever is a good incentive to welcome God's cleansing now rather than being thrown into a spiritual lake of fire. I think there are many religious people, including those who preach ET the loudest who use the name of Jesus as some sort of magic talisman as if literally speaking or confessing his name J-E-S-U-S cleanses their hidden hearts and the churches have taught people to do this. We know whether or not we have been honest with God about what is in us. All is laid bare before Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
She is amazing. I praise God for the work with her. I hope he brings me to that level.
I love sparrow, and I wish with all my heart that love will conquer all, but I'm more in agreement with Heartsong. If people are pure evil (and I really believe there are those kinds of people out there), there isn't much to salvage. You know what I mean? Maybe God wires them back to some kind of child-like state or something. I don't know.

I'm 99% UR, I guess you could say.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
I enjoy reading the posts of those who believe in ET as well as UR, but I feel that I fall somewhere in the middle. The entire subject plagues my conscience, as I can't believe that either is true. Let me explain. Will both sides please help me with understanding this better?

ET'ers (the belief structure I was raised in) believe that only those who are washed with the blood of the Lamb by the acceptance of Christ as their personal Lord and Savior will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Anyone that falls short of this will experience Hell.

UR's believe that EVERYONE, regardless of their spiritual background, will be with Christ in Heaven (please correct me if I'm wrong on this understanding).

I will start by saying that I believe in Heaven, as well as Hell. There is a majority of humans in this world (past,present, and future) who live wonderful, decent lives, that according to the ET'ers, will never be saved. Would a LOVING GOD not have another plan for them, as annihilation is much more merciful than eternal damnation? To me, annihilation means nothingness, just like it was before birth. I am perfectly OK with that. I don't care if I make it to Heaven. I just don't want to burn in Hell. But the concept of a god that damns everyone except ET'ers to Hell just does not compute with me. It makes me not want to believe in such a cruel deity.

On the flipside, I have seen the evil that exists in our world, and I recognize that there are people that commit despicable acts without any type of conscience or remorse for their actions. They are the sick, the twisted, the wretched, the truly evil and wicked that live this life purely to spite and deny anything good in nature. With the same lack of belief that I have in the ET doctrine of Hell for all those that do not meet the "standard", I believe that the utterly wicked will NEVER see Heaven. I do believe that Hell will be a reality for SOME.

So, in closing, I ask this. Why would a LOVING God not have annihilation as the fate for those people who fall in between these extremes? I know the ET'ers will just paste more scripture. This is not what I want, as it just gets SO old, SO fast, time after time. I want there to be a certain level of common sense and personal feeling attatched to the posts.

Thank You All, and Happy New Year!
There was another poster on one of the Religion and Philosophy threads that absolutely nailed it for me; I mean open and shut case. I almost copied and pasted it over here the other day. I wish I could say more. Maybe tomorrow, ditchlights. I'm glad you're thinking about it.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:58 PM
 
6,230 posts, read 9,513,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
You essentially compared over 7 billion people on earth to the satanists, self mutilators, and atheists you have met. Are you really that closed minded? Of course my attitude towards God is swayed by the question of eternity. EVERYBODY'S MIND IS. If it was not, religion would not matter! I do not want to spend eternity with a god that would damn 98% of his creation to hell, as you believe He will.
I'm sorry but I remember God said

Luke 17:26
And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.


As in the days of Noah...Now correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that God killed 98% of his people on Earth (his creation) because of who? What it him? Was it his will? Oh no no no. It was the sins of the people. The UNREPENTANT people!! Who survived this great flood?! Was is some people? Was it no people? Oh no no no. It was Noah and HIS family that took heed the word of God and were REPENTANT towards him!! They were the only ones that survived the great worldwide flood!! 98% of humans on Earth. Dead and gone in a minimal amount of time. And they are all in Hell right now. Talk about Sodom and Gomorrah. Let's talk about the tower of Babel. Let's talk about the ancient egyptians. All cities and nations and peoples judged by God and DESTROYED for sins and rejection of the gospel!! So what are YOU talking about when you say that you WOULD NOT want to spend eternity with a God that judges the hearts of the people that REJECTED him FIRST AND FOREMOST and rejected salvation but yet SAVES the ones that worship him and are repentant and gives them eternal life in Heaven??!!!

Quote:
I have full faith that God will take care of things. Just not to the sick extent you believe he will.
To the sick extent I think he will?! You have not been paying attention man because we are in the last days. Jesus Christ return is near and more disasters are happening one after another. Nations are being judged as we speak and you still think this is some type of sick joke or fantasy I have? Read this.

Billions of People are Going to Hell!

Because the truth you don't want to accept is that billions of people ARE in fact going to Hell. BUT. BIG BUT. But, this is because of their own accord. The world lives according to their own rules. They don't live by God. Are you really prepared to join them in their destruction and path to Hell? I'm not. Because the God himself said

Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.


NOT TO EVEN MENTION, the fact that our God is SO merciful that even when Jesus returns and rapture the church, these SAME people living according to their own will are left behind, they will be given a THIRD chance at salvation in the midst of tribulation!! They will see the antichrist and battle him but STILL be given a chance at salvation. MY GOD WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT OUT A MORE WONDERFUL GOD THAN THAT??!!

Last edited by allenk893; 01-01-2011 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post

Billions of People are Going to Hell!

Because the truth you don't want to accept is that billions of people ARE in fact going to Hell. BUT. BIG BUTT. But, this is because of their own accord. The world lives according to their own rules. They don't live by God. Are you really prepared to join them in their destruction and path to Hell? I'm not. Because the God himself said
( You might want to edit.)

You're right, allen. Nations are going to be judged. When the world is judged, it will learn righteousness. Isaiah 26:9--->>>When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness. People will not be allowed to war anymore. Those who try to scheme and plot and take advantage of the human race will be destroyed at that time, I believe.

You must, must, must learn how this word (hell) got into our Bibles, what it used to mean, and why the church likes to scare the masses into the pews.

You must.

Shall the God of the Whole Earth do Righteously?
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,707,321 times
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When I was thinking about this topic, what is most reasonable for me - independent from the bible or a Christian belief I thought there might be 4 fates

I. the perfectly good people, who searched God and did good all their life and wanted to spend eternity with Him will be granted their desire

II. the good but not perfect people will after death get to know all the secrets of existance and creation (I understand this as an reward) before they vanish away in a peacefull everlasting sleep (this equates annihiliation but should not be understood as a punishment)

III. the average people perish like animals, with their death their existance ceases, simply what atheist believe (neither reward nor punishment, for all people experience good and bad in life which is reward and punishment enough for average persons)

IV. the really evil people will realize all the evil they have done in life, they see the joys of paradise and know that they will never experience it, they will not get to know the secrets of existence and creation and they will die a terrible death, their "souls" will be destroyed, they will die a second death, similar as the Egyptians believed as far as I know, though it will be terrible at last they will find peace (in nonexistence).

though I believe the bible teaches universalism I consider annihilationism still the most reasonable concept, this is however only my human, unscriptural opinion

God did not create his creation to destroy it, both ET and ED (ED for everlasting destruction) leave the decision to men not to God, where in UR it is God's decision to save all his creation.
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