U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-03-2011, 12:54 AM
 
5,743 posts, read 4,595,638 times
Reputation: 4164

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
So, I wonder if in that same way, someone who does not love or believe in their perception of God, could, by loving others as themselves, appreciating nature, and living in such a way that they have the fruit of Spirit, in fact, know God, even though they don't realize that the love in their heart is actually God because God IS love.

YES!!! That is exactly as I see it.

I want to go more into this... but am tired and my brain isn't functioning properly.
But this is one of my favorite subjects and I want to talk more about it.
Be back later on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-03-2011, 01:10 AM
 
5,743 posts, read 4,595,638 times
Reputation: 4164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
My heart wants to believe in UR, ..
Just don't bury what your heart feels. Keep it there, keep it uncovered and keep on walking. I personally believe the Holy Spirit's "office" is located in our HEART. That is where it gets the most work done, anyway.
Peace,
sparrow
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 01:24 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,424,862 times
Reputation: 5148
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Just don't bury what your heart feels. Keep it there, keep it uncovered and keep on walking. I personally believe the Holy Spirit's "office" is located in our HEART. That is where it gets the most work done, anyway.
Peace,
sparrow
Amen!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,119,569 times
Reputation: 866
Beautiful posts, sparrow! Simply beautiful!!

Blessings,
brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 05:09 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,379,125 times
Reputation: 580
My response is,,,DON'T TRUST YOUR HEART!! Your heart can lead you places you do not want to go. It has been, and can be wicked above all else, who can know it?

Only the Lord our God can change the heart, into His Heart, His Throne. Are we there yet? Well, do you sin? If so, then no! God's presense DOESN'T reside within a sinful heart, period. You may have the Word sown there, but is it matured and growing?

I have heard it say, man is not fearful of the Lord. That is your wicked heart talking.

Transgression speaks to the ungodly within *his heart; There is no fear of God before his eyes.

I have heard it say, to 'trust your heart'! Where do you think Satan attacks the follower?

"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?"

I have heard it say, to just follow Jesus and His Kingdom, yet they do not understand, because their heart was turned by Satan, and they believed a lie.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth not, then cometh the wicked, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.

So, again. Careful about that heart of yours. Until we are transformed, into His Glorious Bride, the devil will, can, and does have at that heart of yours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 08:28 AM
 
37,615 posts, read 25,318,615 times
Reputation: 5862
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
My response is,,,DON'T TRUST YOUR HEART!! Your heart can lead you places you do not want to go. It has been, and can be wicked above all else, who can know it?
Nonsense Hot. Any SINCERE person listening to his heart KNOWS when they are wicked. It is absurd to say otherwise. Just because we can rationalize evil into good (as the ET'ers and annihilationists do) does not eliminate that inner voice that knows what is truly evil . . . (without rationalizations about divine justice created by human egos and vengeance). God does not want obedient robots and cowering subjects. He wants His children to mature into self-reliant adults.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,119,569 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
My response is,,,DON'T TRUST YOUR HEART!! Your heart can lead you places you do not want to go. It has been, and can be wicked above all else, who can know it?

Only the Lord our God can change the heart, into His Heart, His Throne. Are we there yet? Well, do you sin? If so, then no! God's presense DOESN'T reside within a sinful heart, period. You may have the Word sown there, but is it matured and growing?

I have heard it say, man is not fearful of the Lord. That is your wicked heart talking.

Transgression speaks to the ungodly within *his heart; There is no fear of God before his eyes.

I have heard it say, to 'trust your heart'! Where do you think Satan attacks the follower?

"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?"

I have heard it say, to just follow Jesus and His Kingdom, yet they do not understand, because their heart was turned by Satan, and they believed a lie.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth not, then cometh the wicked, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.

So, again. Careful about that heart of yours. Until we are transformed, into His Glorious Bride, the devil will, can, and does have at that heart of yours.
I hate to disagree, Hot, but the heart is the ONE place that God is interested in. We are given a new heart in Christ, and it is there where He must reign.
The unregenerate heart may be wicked, but God takes the son of perdition away (spiritual circumcision) and takes the throne Himself.

The heart is what it's all about. The scriptures talk more about the heart than any other body part: a whopping 884 verses!
But don't take my word for it, read the verses yourself, then tell me if it isn't the heart that God is interested in: BibleGateway.com - Keyword*Search: heart

Blessings!
brian

Last edited by ahigherway; 01-03-2011 at 09:20 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,610 posts, read 3,970,440 times
Reputation: 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Did you mean Thanatopsis by William Cullen Bryant?
Yes, of course. That's funny how I got the wrong author. I guess it shows I also like "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner".

I read Thanatopsis from time to time. It is amazing how well Bryant could express his thoughts at such a young age.

It is wonderful that we have had the good fortune to be born and to have a good brain that help us appreciate how nice it is to be alive. Of course, that good brain also makes us aware that we are going to die some day.

We should prepare for that day (get life insurance) and try to delay it (try to stay healthy), but there is no reason to fret about it. A lot of people better than me have faced death without whining, so I hope I can too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,520 posts, read 7,582,682 times
Reputation: 12225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I suspect you're really "OK with annihilation," only if the alternative would be burning in Hell. Granted, nothingness wouldn't be all that bad, but being with God and Christ and your loved ones would be a whole lot better, don't you think?

....The doctrine of Eternal Torment doesn't take any of these things into consideration. To people who believe it, there are no extenuating circumstances. It doesn't matter if a person never heard of Jesus Christ. If he didn't accept Jesus Christ, he's going to become part of God's eternal firewood.
Good Morning Katzpur! Thanx for the reply. When it comes to the concept of annihilation, I am perfectly OK with it. Sure, the concept of walking on the clouds and streets lined with gold is cool, but in the same sense that I do not believe that I am worthy of eternal damnation, why would I believe that I have earned the right to enter heaven? That's why I posed the question of annihilation. I consider it to be the only fair middle ground.

Eons passed before you were born and you never knew the difference, right? The same would happen with annihilation after you die. You would never be the wiser, and there would be no pain. This concept, for me, is optimal. Once I'm dead, the worms will eat my physical body, and I will know nothing, because nothing will exist, as it was before birth.

Most religious people believe they have met the criteria needed to enter Heaven. So, in the same respect, do non religious people think on a daily basis "Am I bad enough to recieve eternal damnation?" Of course not. They live their lives the best they can and are willing to accept whatever happens in the great hereafter. This is where the middle ground for me comes into play. Why would annihilation be considered a bad thing? For people like me who believe that both destinations actually do exist, annihilation is merciful.

If I was an all holy god, why would I allow people who denied me during their lifetime with me for eternity enjoying the same benefits as those who dedicated their lives to me. And if I was an all loving god, I would recognize that there are hundreds of different cultures and belief systems that people are born into that is no fault of their own. They are not bad people, so why would I desire for them to burn in eternity? And if I was a vengeful god, I could see that there are some who would curse me until their deathbed. I gave them life, and they spent it destroying everything that is good in it. Annihilation would not be sufficient for them.

To me, the concept of annilation is beautiful. I believe that I, and the majority of people on the face of earth are worthy of it. In the end, there is supposedly just Heaven and Hell. The difference in the way I think is simply that I believe that the mass majority of people on earth deserve neither place.

The reason why fundamental Christians despise UR, is because they feel that UR eliminates the concept of accountability. If UR was true, traditional Christians would no longer belong to a "members only" club. And if the concept of Hell did not exist, it would take away their most powerful recruitment tool. In a way, I can't blame them for feeling the way they do. What interests me, though, is that my belief of annihilation falls in line with neither camp. To an ETer, the concept of annihilation still eliminates accountability, and to a URer, the concept of annihilation is just as horrible as the concept of Hell.

See, I believe that I lean more towards the UR way of looking at things. But at the same time, I still fall in the middle between ET and UR. I'm just looking for a happy medium. Neither extreme fits my way of thinking. Am I screwed up in the head?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2011, 12:38 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
Reputation: 682
Hi ditchlights,

I believe in UR and I see the concept of annihilation in the scriptures. But what is it that is annihilated? It is the wicked nature out of each one of us that is annihilated. We are all wicked - and the wicked truly are destroyed when every last ounce of wickedness is destroyed out of us. Then we will have been made righteous.

Incidentally, that is what Jesus came to do - to make us righteous...

Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.


Just some things to think on when you are looking at the "annihilation" verses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top