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Old 01-03-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,365 posts, read 20,096,324 times
Reputation: 2117

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I read the Bible because it is the Word of God, but if you can't trust it, then by all means, don't read it. It seems you guys you don't trust the Bible, yet you offer quotes from there. Does that make sense to you?
Perfectly good sense. I view the scriptures in this light

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Luke 24:27.

In otherwords all that really matters to the believer as far as God is concerned.

If you read the account of the 2 men on the road to Emmaus, Finn,you will see when God speaks to us something happens

“Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?” Luke 24:32

You will also see these 2 men had no idea who Jesus was, even though they had seen all that had happened by him and to him

Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him.Luke 24:31

We clearly see here, God working in the heart of man before he ever comes to know him, and we clearly see it's God who opens our eyes so that we may recognize him, and we can also confidently say we can never know him unless he opens our eyes, we also know "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him", and this account of the 2 men on the road to Emmaus is a perfect example of this.

Who drew near to who ?

Jesus himself came up and walked along with them;but they were kept from recognizing him. Luke 24:15-16


So you can see why i and others have a real difficult time accepting your idea, that we are some way responsible for our salvation.


This post of mine as nothing to do with the ET UR debate, but simply challenge to the way you believe.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,712 posts, read 32,163,063 times
Reputation: 9463
You are pelting me with Bible verses. Thanks for proving my point. That is exactly what I was talking about.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,365 posts, read 20,096,324 times
Reputation: 2117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are pelting me with Bible verses. Thanks for proving my point. That is exactly what I was talking about.
I am proving to you by the scriptures, the scriptures that are important as far as God is concerned.

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Luke 24:27.

Concerning himself

Finn i also view the scriptures in a different light to what you do,what you and I are seeing is entirely different, i remember telling you this before.

I kind of believed how you do Finn, maybe for about 4 weeks, as a very young believer, then i began to see that God is Sovereign.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,591,757 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Perfectly good sense. I view the scriptures in this light

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Luke 24:27.

In otherwords all that really matters to the believer as far as God is concerned.

If you read the account of the 2 men on the road to Emmaus, Finn,you will see when God speaks to us something happens

“Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?” Luke 24:32

You will also see these 2 men had no idea who Jesus was, even though they had seen all that had happened by him and to him

Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him.Luke 24:31

We clearly see here, God working in the heart of man before he ever comes to know him, and we clearly see it's God who opens our eyes so that we may recognize him, and we can also confidently say we can never know him unless he opens our eyes, we also know "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him", and this account of the 2 men on the road to Emmaus is a perfect example of this.

Who drew near to who ?

Jesus himself came up and walked along with them;but they were kept from recognizing him. Luke 24:15-16


So you can see why i and others have a real difficult time accepting your idea, that we are some way responsible for our salvation.


This post of mine as nothing to do with the ET UR debate, but simply challenge to the way you believe.
Wow - what a fantastic post. I knew "of" and "about" Jesus for most of my life before God OPENED MY EYES and GAVE ME FAITH so that I could HEAR HIM! That is just the way God works! It is not the hearing of the natural ear that sets us free. However - until one has HEARD him - they might think they know God when in reality they only know ABOUT him from a carnally minded perception.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,712 posts, read 32,163,063 times
Reputation: 9463
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I am proving to you by the scriptures, the scriptures that are important as far as God is concerned.

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Luke 24:27.

Concerning himself

Finn i also view the scriptures in a different light to what you do,what you and I are seeing is entirely different, i remember telling you this before.

I kind of believed how you do Finn, maybe for about 4 weeks, as a very young believer, then i began to see that God is Sovereign.
Yes, I can tell you feel that way. After all, when others like me quote from the Bible you lable them with demeaning titles such as "Bible worshippers", but when you quote from the Bible it is OK, because you are not "young believer" anymore, but mature, more enlightened and more qualified.

Listen to yourself....
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,365 posts, read 20,096,324 times
Reputation: 2117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, I can tell you feel that way. After all, when others like me quote from the Bible you lable them with demeaning titles such as "Bible worshippers", but when you quote from the Bible it is OK, because you are not "young believer" anymore, but mature, more enlightened and more qualified.

Listen to yourself....
Finn i do not believe God is "the bible" or what is written in ink "is God". This verse below perfectly sums up to me what God makes known to us through the scriptures.Mainstream christianity as been brainwashed into thinking the bible is God and, and this is why it's a closed shop when it comes to openess.

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Luke 24:27.

I also said i view the scriptures in a different light to you,in otherwords i do not worship it, or believe it is God.


I also believe there is truth to be known outside the bible. Jesus told us to consider the lilies of the field, and you know what Finn ?, i consider and observe just like he encourages us to do so, and see truth all around me.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:33 PM
 
18,078 posts, read 8,985,249 times
Reputation: 1514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
It is not the hearing of the natural ear that sets us free. However - until one has HEARD him - they might think they know God when in reality they only know ABOUT him from a carnally minded perception.
Now, that's a truth.

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Old 01-03-2011, 12:37 PM
 
18,078 posts, read 8,985,249 times
Reputation: 1514
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I also believe there is truth to be known outside the bible. Jesus told us to consider the lilies of the field, and you know what Finn ?, i consider and observe just like he encourages us to do so, and see truth all around me.
Amen to that, too.

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Old 01-03-2011, 05:31 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,432,454 times
Reputation: 5148
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I can give Faith (Belief). Here is an example. I give a lecture about Faith. I tell the crowd that I can jump 1 foot into the air. I ask how many have Faith that I can do such. Practically everyone raised their hands. Then I say I can jump 40 feet into the air. I ask how many have Faith I can do that. Nobody raises their hands. None of them had Faith that I can jump into the air 40 feet. How could they get this faith then? Then I jumped 40 feet into the air. I then asked them how many of you have Faith I could jump 41 feet into the air and all of them raised their hands. None of them could tell me that the Faith came from themselves. For none of them believed I could jump 40 feet into the air. But once I did they could believe I could jump 41.

Of course this account is fictional but demonstrates that we give others belief. And that belief can be given to you. That people that do believe in God is because God has manifest Himself in some believable way to that those people that have Faith. He could easily manifest Himself even more to those that still lack it.
In my heart...I've always known that there is a Creator (I just didn't know his attributes then) so I called myself a free-thinker...then one day, he confirmed that belief through undeniable spiritual experiences.

~The Spirit of God is like the breeze, felt by those whom it touches in their own time...
John 3:8
Blessings...
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,648,516 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
In my heart...I've always known that there is a Creator (I just didn't know his attributes then) so I called myself a free-thinker...then one day, he confirmed that belief through undeniable spiritual experiences.

~The Spirit of God is like the breeze, felt by those whom it touches in their own time...
John 3:8
Blessings...
That is wonderful ans57. I'm sure He will reveal much more.... So maintain that hope.
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