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Old 01-03-2011, 12:48 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,840,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
And we know this how?
I use the standard that you do ..... since I say it and believe it......it must be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So why are there more than 30,000 different interpretations of what's in the Bible? It's not just a matter of what's in the Bible, but how all of these 30,000 different denominations interpret the exact same words. If there had been apostles from the time of Christ on, we wouldn't be where we are today.
Because ......

1. whoever complied that amount doesn't know what defines as true Christian teaching. Remove those and the number would be significantly smaller. If I had to reasonably guess of actual different true Christian denominations ... I would say @ 100 or less


2. It is common calculation error to count a "sister" church body that was formed in a different country as a seperate denomination, when in fact they are not....bean counters don't understand this.
  • i.e. Our church has mission fields in Malawi, Zambia, Cameroon, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Japan, Russia, Indonesia, Taiwan, Thailand, India, Brazil, the Dominican Republic, Canada and Mexico and some of those churchs are called "The Lutheran Church of _____" . They are not multiple denominations with different interpetations .......
(but for me it's sure fun to hear ignorant objecters prove themselves how little they know)
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
I use the standard that you do ..... since I say it and believe it......it must be true.

(but for me it's sure fun to hear ignorant objecters prove themselves how little they know)
Do you really think those walking in the Spirit would talk (as you have) with such a smug tone?
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,299 posts, read 20,972,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is the "kicker" . . . isn't it. Do you feel lucky?
Luckier than you can imagine. And confused by it, too.

Quote:
Sorry . . . teachers are explicitly told they have a greater burden to bear.
I agree, but ultimately, we are each bear the responsibility to find truth for ourselves.

Quote:
If you have anyone today who has been appointed by Christ Himself . . . I would accept his authority . . . If I were convinced that was so. But as soon as what he said departed from what God has "written in my heart" and revealed to me . . . that authority would evaporate. The Holy Spirit within guiding me to what God has "written in our hearts" is the supreme authority for me, period . . . as it should be for everyone who sincerely seeks the truth within . . . not the rationalizations in the "precepts and doctrines of men."
I couldn't possibly agree more.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,299 posts, read 20,972,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
I use the standard that you do ..... since I say it and believe it......it must be true.
No, we don't. I've heard you say you use the Bible and it alone. So what you're saying about revelation ceasing with the deaths of the apostles must be found in the Bible.

Quote:
Because ......

1. whoever complied that amount doesn't know what defines as true Christian teaching. Remove those and the number would be significantly smaller. If I had to reasonably guess of actual different true Christian denominations ... I would say @ 100 or less.
I should have guessed. Nobody knows who a true Christian is like you do. So, let's take it down to a hundred, for the sake of argument. Why are there 100 different denominations? If they all taught exactly the same things, they wouldn't call themselves by different names. And if they are all teaching different things, how can they all be teaching what's true? Why isn't there just one Church? Jesus didn't establish 100 different ones.


Quote:
2. It is common calculation error to count a "sister" church body that was formed in a different country as a seperate denomination, when in fact they are not....bean counters don't understand this.
That may be, but the Southern Baptists are different from the American Baptists. They teach different doctrines. The same with the various Lutheran denominations.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:28 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,840,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
No, we don't. I've heard you say you use the Bible and it alone. So what you're saying about revelation ceasing with the deaths of the apostles must be found in the Bible.
That's right... God's Word starts with Genesis and ends with Revelations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I should have guessed. Nobody knows who a true Christian is like you do.
That's right ... since most here are not Christian, that would be the reaction I would expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So, let's take it down to a hundred, for the sake of argument. Why are there 100 different denominations? If they all taught exactly the same things, they wouldn't call themselves by different names. And if they are all teaching different things, how can they all be teaching what's true? Why isn't there just one Church? Jesus didn't establish 100 different ones.
"if they are all teaching different things, how can they all be teaching what's true?"
A: They're not

Why isn't there just one Church?
A: false teachers, itching ears, spiritually blind, the rejection of God, by rejecting God...God makes it impossible for some to see the truth, the mixing of false teaching with the true.


This is the basic formula:

Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
    • the Bible only, not the Bible and other books\magazines
  1. Sola fide ("by faith alone")
    • not "by faith + good works" or "by faith + keeping the law" or "by faith after all we can do"
  2. Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
    • We are Christian because of nothing good within us
  3. Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")
    • Belonging to a church doesn't save us or give us a better relationship to God
  4. 5 Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")
    • God gets all the glory for the entire process of "coming to faith to entering heaven", and we are accountable for not believing and being damned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That may be, but the Southern Baptists are different from the American Baptists. They teach different doctrines. The same with the various Lutheran denominations.
Not entirely accurate .... many Lutheran denominations do share the same doctrines. The explaination to that is well beyond this OP topic
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:47 PM
 
17,955 posts, read 8,947,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Do you really think those walking in the Spirit would talk (as you have) with such a smug tone?
Only those who walk in the ignorance of their own flesh; thinking themselves to be wise.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,299 posts, read 20,972,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
That's right... God's Word starts with Genesis and ends with Revelations.
But if that's the case, where in God's Word are we told this?

Quote:
That's right ... since most here are not Christian, that would be the reaction I would expect.
Many definitely don't behave like Christians, that's for sure. They judge other people right and left and seem to forget that judging is to be left up to God.

Quote:
"if they are all teaching different things, how can they all be teaching what's true?"
A: They're not
But they're all Christian Churches? I'm kind of surprised to hear you say that there could be 100 different denominations that are all Christian. I would have expected you to say that only the one that is teaching 100% true doctrines is "the Christian Church."

Quote:
Why isn't there just one Church?
Quote:
A: false teachers, itching ears, spiritually blind, the rejection of God, by rejecting God...God makes it impossible for some to see the truth, the mixing of false teaching with the true.
Right on! It's exactly what Paul said would happen without prophets and apostles.


Quote:
This is the basic formula:





Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
  • the Bible only, not the Bible and other books\magazines
I'm not even going to bother with points 2 through 5 in this post, since they really aren't pertinent to this thread. Where in the Bible is Sola scriptura taught? And how would you explain the changes in the Christian canon over the years?
Quote:
Not entirely accurate .... many Lutheran denominations do share the same doctrines.
They may share some of the same doctrines, but it's because they differ on some doctrines that they split apart from one another.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,840,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
But if that's the case, where in God's Word are we told this?
Because we have Paul warning that imposters were already circulating supposed "further revelations" in forms of letters from Paul. Paul was (what you might say) was defensive about ohters taking the title of "Apostle". He therefor charged his readers to ignore them and reguard them as false.

God went so far as to say twice that he was drawing the line; that if Paul or an angel were to "reveal" something from now on. it better had squarely match what was previously revealed...or that the consequence is that Paul or that angel was to be eternally damned.

Because we have God's Word saying the Apostles themselves acknowledging that what they were writing was not from them but from God, John was the last surviving original Apostles that had lived while Jesus physically walked the earth. It is logical then that the last surviving Apostle should get the last revelation about the last event of the world .... Revelation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
But they're all Christian Churches? I'm kind of surprised to hear you say that there could be 100 different denominations that are all Christian. I would have expected you to say that only the one that is teaching 100% true doctrines is "the Christian Church."
Surprised? why would that surprise you?

There is a difference in the meaning of "Christian churches" and "the Christian Church".

There are many Christian churches (small "c") who preach and believe in the 5 solas, but they will differ in areas like the sacraments, millennialism vs. amillennialism, OSAS vs. "falling from \ losing faith" ect. But what they all have in common is the 5 solas, the belief in the trinity, that Jesus is God, that unbelief is accountable and damnable eternally.

The "true Christian Church" is made of those who God only knows truly believes in the 5 solas, the trinity and that Jesus is part of that trinity.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:32 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,840,973 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Because we have Paul warning that imposter's were already circulating supposed "further revelations" in forms of letters from Paul. Paul was (what you might say) defensive about others taking the title of "Apostle". He therefor charged his readers to ignore them and regard them as false.

God went so far as to say twice that he was drawing the line; that if Paul or an angel were to "reveal" something from now on it better had squarely match what was previously revealed...or that the consequence is that Paul or that angel was to be eternally damned.

Because we have God's Word saying the Apostles themselves acknowledging that what they were writing was not from them but from God, John was the last surviving original Apostles that had lived while Jesus physically walked the earth. It is logical then that the last surviving Apostle should get the last revelation about the last event of the world .... Revelation.




Surprised? why would that surprise you?

There is a difference in the meaning of "Christian churches" and "the Christian Church".

There are many Christian churches (small "c") who preach and believe in the 5 solas, but they will differ in areas like the sacraments, millennialism vs. amillennialism, OSAS vs. "falling from \ losing faith" ect. But what they all have in common is the 5 solas, the belief in the trinity, that Jesus is God, that unbelief is accountable and damnable eternally.

The "true Christian Church" is made up of those who God only knows that truly believes in the 5 solas, the trinity and that Jesus is part of that trinity.

Sorry caught some typing errors.........
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,584,844 times
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Quote:
There are many Christian churches (small "c") who preach and believe in the 5 solas, but they will differ in areas like the sacraments, millennialism vs. amillennialism, OSAS vs. "falling from \ losing faith" ect. But what they all have in common is the 5 solas, the belief in the trinity, that Jesus is God, that unbelief is accountable and damnable eternally.
The "true Christian Church" is made up of those who God only knows that truly believes in the 5 solas, the trinity and that Jesus is part of that trinity.
It's not that surprising that the two who are arguing in this thread are both members of organized religious denominations (Lutheran and Mormon). Until you come out from mother Babylon, you'll not be free.
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